> General Discussions
The Mind Of Christ.
Dave in Tenn:
I'll just add some underscores and let these stand as they might.
Php 2:5-8 For, let this mind be in you that is also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal to God, but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made, and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death--death even of a cross...
This is the mind of Christ in the shortest and clearest terms.
Geoff, I've found that we have to understand and do many things at the same time. Often they seem contradictory, and there is no shortage of "folks" who can and will hurl scripture to let us know we're failing to do one thing or the other. And sometimes we are. Jesus whipping the money-changers out of the temple doesn't seem "humble" on the surface, nor does his contention with the Scribes and Pharisees--indeed, even with His own disciples. Yet He still humbled Himself in the greatest humiliation possible. And that's what is "required" of us. First.
Php 2:10,11 ...that in the name of Jesus every knee may bow--of heavenlies, and earthlies, and what are under the earth--and every tongue may confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
...For there is ONE LORD...
That's really the only "unity" I seek, though other "unities" are very precious to find.
Colin:
Hello Everybody
Before I set out to drive around Australia, 50 years ago, I consulted detailed maps to plan our journey. Detailed maps often have lots of symbols which are explained in what is termed a legend that provides explanation of the symbols used, such as to denote tracks, camping grounds, scenic lookouts, caravan parks, railway crossings etc.
By analogy, the scriptures are the map, a guide, for our walk through life….our “path”. David was inspired to describe it this way:-
Ps 119:103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!
Ps 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Ps 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
There are many other scriptures we can find, which include the term “feet” to denote our conduct, or misconduct ...and understanding which way we should live. Proverbs is filled with them, for instance.
Ray’s numerous papers provide us with many explanations of the symbols used in our “scriptural map”, in that he elaborated and showed us how to avoid misinterpreting symbols, which we had done unknowingly.
We had been brought up and taught to think that a “boggy bit of ground” was reliably safe to drive/walk on, by believing the doctrines of former false ministers. One of the important clues which Ray gave us was to alert us to the presence and application of parables; this knowledge can often be a “light to our understanding”.
If I had continued to study my map of Australia until I felt I knew every detail of the journey which I had proposed to do, and had not actually commenced my trip - then I might have become an expert map reader but not much more; I would have remained totally ignorant of what it is like to actually undertake such a journey, with all of its strenuous experiences, pitfalls and enjoyable vistas .
I would not have realised that often a detour is encountered, for whatever reasons, and close consultation of the map would be needed to find the best way around an obstacle. The map would form the firm basis for deciding which way is best to choose.
Such is life.
Because the word of God reflects the mind of God, it is the best guidance to live by. Using a map involves more than a cursory glance at it now and then. My analogy is not perfect: analogies are not always, but I hoped that I could contribute beneficially with these thoughts.
As I continue to encounter people at the point of death in my volunteering work, I am glad I have “my map” - notably, the scriptures and the legend provided by Ray, so that I can better understand what this life of ours is all about, to a better degree.
The frequent question I hear people ask is “why does God have man suffer so much”? I cannot answer them, as they would not comprehend what we have been blessed to understand. I am comforted by knowing that all will be revealed in God’s good time - to ALL of us. I do possess the map and am able to interpret some of the finer details, for which I am most thankful.
The mind of Christ is one of compassion (which we can read of in many of His encounters with suffering humanity, when He walked the earth). Understanding His teachings of showing love are of paramount importance to our developing the same mind which He has.
This is a gradual process…..much as was my driving around Australia, where I learned as I went - how to become a better driver and navigator.
We have to get out and DO……while realising that our good works are God-inspired. He is the One who “lights out path”, but we have to take the steps.
Colin
cheekie3:
Colin -
--- Quote from: Colin on October 06, 2016, 11:24:34 PM ---Hello Everybody
Before I set out to drive around Australia, 50 years ago, I consulted detailed maps to plan our journey. Detailed maps often have lots of symbols which are explained in what is termed a legend that provides explanation of the symbols used, such as to denote tracks, camping grounds, scenic lookouts, caravan parks, railway crossings etc.
By analogy, the scriptures are the map, a guide, for our walk through life….our “path”. David was inspired to describe it this way:-
Ps 119:103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!
Ps 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Ps 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
There are many other scriptures we can find, which include the term “feet” to denote our conduct, or misconduct ...and understanding which way we should live. Proverbs is filled with them, for instance.
Ray’s numerous papers provide us with many explanations of the symbols used in our “scriptural map”, in that he elaborated and showed us how to avoid misinterpreting symbols, which we had done unknowingly.
We had been brought up and taught to think that a “boggy bit of ground” was reliably safe to drive/walk on, by believing the doctrines of former false ministers. One of the important clues which Ray gave us was to alert us to the presence and application of parables; this knowledge can often be a “light to our understanding”.
If I had continued to study my map of Australia until I felt I knew every detail of the journey which I had proposed to do, and had not actually commenced my trip - then I might have become an expert map reader but not much more; I would have remained totally ignorant of what it is like to actually undertake such a journey, with all of its strenuous experiences, pitfalls and enjoyable vistas .
I would not have realised that often a detour is encountered, for whatever reasons, and close consultation of the map would be needed to find the best way around an obstacle. The map would form the firm basis for deciding which way is best to choose.
Such is life.
Because the word of God reflects the mind of God, it is the best guidance to live by. Using a map involves more than a cursory glance at it now and then. My analogy is not perfect: analogies are not always, but I hoped that I could contribute beneficially with these thoughts.
As I continue to encounter people at the point of death in my volunteering work, I am glad I have “my map” - notably, the scriptures and the legend provided by Ray, so that I can better understand what this life of ours is all about, to a better degree.
The frequent question I hear people ask is “why does God have man suffer so much”? I cannot answer them, as they would not comprehend what we have been blessed to understand. I am comforted by knowing that all will be revealed in God’s good time - to ALL of us. I do possess the map and am able to interpret some of the finer details, for which I am most thankful.
The mind of Christ is one of compassion (which we can read of in many of His encounters with suffering humanity, when He walked the earth). Understanding His teachings of showing love are of paramount importance to our developing the same mind which He has.
This is a gradual process…..much as was my driving around Australia, where I learned as I went - how to become a better driver and navigator.
We have to get out and DO……while realising that our good works are God-inspired. He is the One who “lights out path”, but we have to take the steps.
Colin
--- End quote ---
When I was reading your Post, I began to think about why most people struggle to accept that there is a Creator who is pure Love.
I find that most people that refuse to accept in a Creator and a Loving God, is because of all the suffering and killing.
In the Old Testament, Our heavenly Father killed and ordered Israel to kill many people and nations, either because they obeyed and served other gods, or that they did not obey Him.
How do we answer someone who asks 'How can a Loving God, tell you to love others as yourself, when He killed those that served other gods? Is this not what all the extremists in all religions do today?'.
It is difficult to reconcile the separation and extremism of The Old Testament regarding The Hebrews / Israelites, and The New Testament regarding 'God is Love'.
We are instructed to have answers to questions that we are asked - but can any of us on this Forum correctly answer the above question, that has been raised a multitude of times?
Kind Regards.
George
Pini56:
Hello All,
Some really good responses here. I liked your Analogy Colin. How do we gain a proper understanding of the word of God. It’s no good just being a good Map Reader. As colin pointed out, we must get out there on the Road to fully appreciate the map and come to a better understanding of it. Here is scripture that backs this up.
Jas 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
Jas 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
Well to me this is what It’s all about. Sometimes all we are doing here on this Forum is for ever learning and never truly understanding. These Scriptures tell us what pure region is and that the understanding comes from being a doer.
I liked your explanation Dave, tis true what you said. And said in a way that spoke to my Heart. Thank you.
“It is a process of learning to be ‘Like Him’. One step at a time, through ‘suffering’.” Ditto on this one.
Thanks for your input Dennis. Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. This is unfortunately true.
I look forward to hearing from others. Maybe something that Ray has shown us.
Love to you all, Regards Geoff.
Kat:
Hi Geoff, good topic, here is a few things from Ray on this.
https://bible-truths.com/lake8.html ------------------------------
Jesus Christ said,
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter [a movable stone], and upon this rock [Christ, the immovable boulder] I will build MY CHURCH; and the gates of hell [Greek: hades, the unseen realm of the dead] shall NOT prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18).
What did Jesus mean that the "gates of hades would not prevail against it?" This word "prevail" was translated from the Greek word katischuo and it means, "to overpower." It is used but one other time in Scripture and here we shall see exactly what this word means:
"And they [the chief priests] were instant with loud voices, requiring that He [Jesus] might be crucified. And the voices of them of the chief priests prevailed… And when they were come to the place which is called Calvary, there they CRUCIFIED Him…" (Luke 23:23 & 33).
The chief priests "prevailed" [katischuo] by putting Jesus Christ TO DEATH. But Jesus said that the "gates of hades [realm of the DEAD] will not prevail [katischuo] against it." In other words, His Church would NEVER be overpowered to death.
And so, the Church that Jesus Christ built is still around today.
On Pentecost, Jesus Christ came back to His disciples just as He said He would. He came back as the Comforter. Jesus said that they absolutely could NOT receive the Comforter until He went away. Why? Because Jesus Christ IS THE COMFORTER, but not in the flesh, but in THE SPIRIT!
It was on Pentecost that the first members of the Church of Christ received the Holy Spirit Comforter, just as He symbolized to them when He blew on them, showing that He Himself would come to them in spirit by the will of God. Now for the first time, His disciples were truly converted, baptized in Holy Spirit, possessing the mind of Christ, lead into all Truth (Jesus) by the Comforter—Jesus was NOW BUILDING HIS CHURCH!
"But the Comforter [Greek, parakletos, also called the Consoler, and in I John 2:1, Advocate in KJV, and Entreater in the CLNT] which IS the Holy Spirit, Whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" (John 14:26).
The Advocate or Entreater in I John 2:1 IS the parakletos, The Comforter or Consoler of John 14:26 IS the parakletos,. and we are told that it is Jesus Christ Himself. Furthermore, the "Holy Spirit" that is said to come AS the Comforter is also Jesus Christ,
"Now the Lord IS that Spirit: and where the Spirit OF THE Lord [Jesus Christ] is, there is liberty" (II Cor. 3:17).
https://bible-truths.com/lake11.html -------------------------
The giant difference between the physically called of God and the spiritually Chosen of God is that the first are immature babes, and the second are spiritually mature sons—having the mind of Christ. The physical Church knows Christ only "after the flesh." The carnal believe that Jesus Christ was "crucified" for them—which is true. But the mature know by experience that, "I am crucified WITH Christ." The carnal-minded Christians "will be saved," but they will not be in the first resurrection, nor will they reign with Jesus Christ as the manifest sons and daughters of God in the Kingdom of God throughout the oncoming ages.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=5815.0 ------
God is bigger than we ever thought. He’s just so much bigger, so much wiser, so much everything. That’s why it says what it says here.
I Cor. 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
v. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches…
Well why not? Why not teach us these things in the words of man’s wisdom? What’s wrong with that? That’s not the way it’s done. Paul knew about man’s wisdom, he knew about words, he knew about meanings, he could write a full sentence. He could carry through a thought, like the philosophers or poets and all of that. But notice.
v. 13 …not in words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things (things should not be in there) with spiritual.
v. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
v. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.
v. 16 For "who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
Well we should have the mind of Christ, we are suppose to have the mind of Christ.
https://bible-truths.com/lake13.html ----------------------------
There are three realms spoken of in Revelation: sea, earth, and heaven:
"And the angel which I saw stand upon the SEA and upon the EARTH lifted up his hand to HEAVEN, and swore by Him that lives for ever and ever, [for the eons of the eons], who created HEAVEN, and the things that therein are, and the EARTH, and the things that therein are, and the SEA, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer [no longer a time of delay]" (Rev. 10:5-6).
The angels [messengers] of God communicate things from heaven to both the earth and the sea:
"And the voice which I heard from heaven spoke unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the ANGEL which stands upon the sea and upon the earth" (Rev. 10:08).
There are three realms of humanity and three realms of spiritual understanding. The lowest of all is the sea. Those with at least some spiritual understanding are those who dwell in the earth. And those who have the very mind of Christ are those who dwell in heaven.
v
"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, they shall deceive the very elect" (Matt. 24:24).
Ah, but it is NOT POSSIBLE to deceive the very elect!
https://bible-truths.com/email13.htm -----------------------------
[Ray Replies]
Dear Walter:
The level of understanding that I personally possess is not necessarily what your goal should be. You should desire to have the understanding of Jesus Christ.
Now then, is there a "reading list" as you suggest that will give you this understanding? NO.
Will taking courses at a theological seminary (as you suggested) give you this understanding? NO.
Will reading and studying dozens of Bible Dictionaries and Bible Commentaries give you this understanding? NO.
Will reading the Bible ITSELF give you this spiritual understanding. NO.
Well where pray tell does it come from? It comes from the Spirit of God IN US--having the very MIND OF CHRIST IN US.
How do we get that? Repent & OBEY the gospel! "A good understanding have all they that DO His commandments." There are hundreds and hundreds of spiritual commandments in the New Testament Scriptures. You must OBEY those commandments. All of my writing are designed to help people better understand this commandments. That's why God has teachers. I personally try to obey ALL OF GODS SPIRITUAL COMMANDMENTS in the New Testament. I repent of my SINS. I BEG God for spiritual understanding and spiritual obedience and spiritual LOVE for God and for all humanity.
Do these things ALL day, EVERY day, and God will give you understanding--I GUARANTEE IT!
God be with you,
Ray
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