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pg-91:
Hi all,

What I have problems now with and would like to discuss with you is still this responsible/accountable thing. I mean when I'm thinking about the past I ask, why-why-why those things happened that way? I also ask the question, to which Paul says who am I to ask? That is: why I'm like this or that or behaved this way or that way. Of course I focus on the sad,negative things and mistakes, when I know also that for every good that happened I should be thankful to God. But I would love so much if my brother and classmate would live now. And then I start to think about responsibility.

I mean if someone accidentally hits someone by car, then God caused it 100% and takes 100% responsibility for the death? This is how I see it now. But then again, I've recently read somewhere from Ray that Hitler will have a very hard time forgive himself for his sins, but what is the difference between him and other people? Also I'm thinking what if I'm let's say 1% "responsible" for their death? It's so easy to get into deep depression and apathy.. and move on with life..

It's very strange to me that there is so little about guilt in the New Testament and also here in the forum I couldn't find too much material on it. What "you" adviced me some time ago was this: CLV: Matt 6:14-15 "For if you should be forgiving men their offenses, your heavenly Father also will be forgiving you." 15 Yet if you should not be forgiving men their offenses, neither will your Father be forgiving your offenses." I have the problem that this statement by Jesus was still before the crucifixion, so Jesus said it under the Old Covenant. I don't want to say at all, that what Jesus said before crucifixion has no meaning for us or don't have to follow it today or anything like that, I just think that it works the other way around in the New Testament, when we receive accept,feel, God's forgiveness, could we really forgive to other people or ourselves. ( I still have a hard time).

Would appreciate any thoughts on this topics.

Gyula

Dave in Tenn:
Gyula, that's a lot of questions, and I hope others will be around to tackle some of them.  It's late, and I just want to comment on the last bit.


--- Quote from: pg-91 on October 09, 2016, 02:55:52 PM ---...when we receive accept,feel, God's forgiveness, could we really forgive to other people or ourselves. ( I still have a hard time).

Would appreciate any thoughts on this topics.

Gyula

--- End quote ---

The just shall live by faith.  Give yourself time for faith to grow, and keep believing that what is past is not the end of things.  Remember also that what faith you have was given to you by God.  It's not something we can drum up on our own.

It's very unlikely you have anything over me in hurtful and regretful things done.  This is one of my favorite passages:

Isa 11:1  And a Shoot goes out from the stump of Jesse, and a Branch will bear fruit out of his roots.  That's Him.   
Isa 11:2  And the Spirit of Jehovah shall rest on Him; He will have the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and power, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah.  That's Him.
Isa 11:3  And He is made to breathe in the fear of Jehovah. But He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes, nor decide by the hearing of His ears.  That's Him.
Isa 11:4  But He shall judge the poor in righteousness, and shall decide rightly for the meek of the earth. And He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, and He shall cause the wicked to die with the breath of His lip.  That's Him and Judgement, both now and later.
Isa 11:5  And righteousness shall be the encircler of His loins, and faithfulness the encircler of His reins.
Isa 11:6  And the wolf (That's me, when it is) shall live with the lamb; (That's me too, when it is.) and the leopard (me again) shall lie with the kid (sometimes that's me, too); and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little boy shall lead them.  (I hope that "little boy" is me, if I can be graced to become as a little child and lead those like me).
Isa 11:7  The cow and the bear shall feed, their young shall lie together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8  And the infant shall play on the hole of the asp; yea, the weaned child shall put his hand on the viper's den.
Isa 11:9  They shall not do evil, nor destroy in all My holy mountain. For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea.

That's what I hope for.  Evil is vanquished and all is peace.  I hope you can experience at the least the comfort of this promise in faith, no matter whether you've been the leopard or the kid or some much more common combination of both. 

Flanagan:
What is the difference between Hitler and other people?
I'd say Hitler was worse than most when it came to being complicit in so many deaths.  But at the same time Hitler gives me a sense of hope, knowing that God will convert him too and as it is written in Luke 7:47  Hitler will " love much "
God's Grace to you Gyula

pg-91:
Dave, thank you for showing me these verses and attaching little explanation to them. I hope for the same, just it's so difficult to experience this comfort or peace now... Yeah, my OP was quite clumsy, sorry for that, it's also because I have so many questions and don't understand so many things.. And the cycle with depression,apathy then sin goes on. I guess, I have a very hard time connect God's sovereignty with a lot of things which happened in the past, and find motivations for the future, and also understanding that God is the ultimate cause of everything. I feel myself at a similar place like a lot of people who send those e-mails to Ray, that are we just robots,puppets, what's the point if nothing couldn't have been otherwise and so on.. I know we have to learn about good and evil and we can make choices( not free also). But then I start thinking that I'm caused to do nothing now? That's what I feel..

Anyway, thank you Flanagan also for your thoughts, and I would still appreciate any further responses in this discussion.

Gyula

Rhys 🕊:
1 Corinthians 15:50

I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

Your present flesh and blood does not understand the kingdom till God knocks the stuffing out of you. Understand that then you will understand about responsibility and accountability. God really does bring us through the fire. Not understanding and feeling like your head is going to explode is all part of the process.

God is growing us into something greater.


1 Peter 2:1-5

So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation— if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good. As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.



Rhys

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