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Author Topic: What did Ray meant by saying  (Read 5574 times)

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Hellisfake

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What did Ray meant by saying
« on: October 17, 2016, 11:28:47 AM »

      What did Ray meant by saying: "It will be the most difficult thing that any human will ever experience in all eternity".

      This saving process is impossible to achieve without Gods power, but with God power, is it so hard? What is the difficult part?  To deny your self, and take up your cross? But no one can do that without Gods influence.  The salvation is all about Gods work, so no one can boast?

Share your thoughts
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 12:13:05 PM by Hellisfake »
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Hellisfake

cheekie3

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Re: What did Ray meant by saying
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2016, 12:04:55 PM »

Hellisfake -

      What did Ray meant by saying: "It will be the most difficult thing that any human will ever experience in all eternity".

      This saving process is impossible to achieve without Gods power, but with God power, is it so hard? What is the difficult part?  To deny your self, and take up your cross? But know one can do that without Gods influence.  The salvation is all about Gods work, so know one can boast?

Share your thoughts

If you are referring to what Ray said about the Elect in this Age of Grace, then Ray was stating that the 'judgment' being carried out in His Elect is severe.

The reason that it is severe, is that He is building up His son's Body (of Christ) to become His Saviours in the next Age, after Jesus returns to reign Righteously for 1000 years (when Satan will be bound).

It is All according to His Choice and not of His Elect, and He enables His Elect to go through His Chastening Consuming Fire, in order to be refined as silver and gold.

It is very painful, and at times, His Elect will feel all alone and powerless - but He has confirmed that He will conclude His Good Works in His Elect.

It is when His Elect suffer and are persecuted for doing Right.

His makes His Elect desire to obey His Commandments and to follow in His Son's footsteps.

It is all about denying 'self' and serving others as His Elect would like others to serve them - as His Elect have One Father - who prepares each aspect of His Elects daily steps that they should walk in them.

I hope this helps you a little.

Kind Regard.

George


 
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: What did Ray meant by saying
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2016, 12:07:47 AM »

      What did Ray meant by saying: "It will be the most difficult thing that any human will ever experience in all eternity".

      This saving process is impossible to achieve without Gods power, but with God power, is it so hard? What is the difficult part?  To deny your self, and take up your cross? But no one can do that without Gods influence.  The salvation is all about Gods work, so no one can boast?

Share your thoughts

Just doing the things Jesus said in one sermon (on the mount) requires such a change of heart and repentance against our perfectly understandable and natural instincts that few can do any one of those things consistently, much less all of them at the same time.  If it really was 'easy', everybody would be doing it...well, maybe not everybody, but surely more who know what He said would be. 

I know that His yoke is easy, and His burden is light, but merely coming to the point where we are willing to take His yoke on and LEARN of Him also goes against every fiber of our make up, whether we are "religious" or not at all.

His people are being judged now, and the proof of that judgement is in the growing presence of the fruit of His Spirit.  Patience and long-suffering are among them.  At the same time, however, the devil has counterfeits to all of them, and these won't stand up to judgement.

Here's an open question:  Is anybody having an easy time of it?  If you are, why?  If you are not, why not?
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

cheekie3

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Re: What did Ray meant by saying
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2016, 04:57:24 AM »

Dave in Tenn -

      What did Ray meant by saying: "It will be the most difficult thing that any human will ever experience in all eternity".

      This saving process is impossible to achieve without Gods power, but with God power, is it so hard? What is the difficult part?  To deny your self, and take up your cross? But no one can do that without Gods influence.  The salvation is all about Gods work, so no one can boast?

Share your thoughts

Just doing the things Jesus said in one sermon (on the mount) requires such a change of heart and repentance against our perfectly understandable and natural instincts that few can do any one of those things consistently, much less all of them at the same time.  If it really was 'easy', everybody would be doing it...well, maybe not everybody, but surely more who know what He said would be. 

I know that His yoke is easy, and His burden is light, but merely coming to the point where we are willing to take His yoke on and LEARN of Him also goes against every fiber of our make up, whether we are "religious" or not at all.

His people are being judged now, and the proof of that judgement is in the growing presence of the fruit of His Spirit.  Patience and long-suffering are among them.  At the same time, however, the devil has counterfeits to all of them, and these won't stand up to judgement.

Here's an open question:  Is anybody having an easy time of it?  If you are, why?  If you are not, why not?

Good Points.

I was wondering if you are referring to counterfeit Satanic 'fruit of the spirit', or something else. If counterfeit 'fruit of the spirit', please confirm what you believe these are. Or, please confirm what you are referring to, if it is not Satan's counterfeit 'fruit of the spirit'. I know that we are to know them by their 'fruit'.

Regarding your question - Yes, I always have a very hard time (through the whole spectrum of emotions and heartache) - yet, I always have confirmation from Him that He is Directing my steps and is always with me in my pain and suffering, which always passes after I go through His Consuming Fire, and into His Marvelous 'Rest', in 'Peace', in 'His Joy' and in 'His Love'.

Kind Regards.

George

 
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Extol

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Re: What did Ray meant by saying
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2016, 05:22:08 AM »

I don't know if it's what Ray meant, but I interpret it as overcoming the flesh. That is what is the hardest thing to do.

As Ray once said, if man has free will, WHY DOESN'T IT EVER WORK? Out of all the billions of people who have lived, wouldn't JUST ONE person have said "I don't want to sin. I'm going to be righteous all my life."
Well, we of course know such a thing is not possible. In fact, most people in the world know it's not possible.
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Hellisfake

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Re: What did Ray meant by saying
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2016, 06:06:32 AM »

I don't know if it's what Ray meant, but I interpret it as overcoming the flesh. That is what is the hardest thing to do.

As Ray once said, if man has free will, WHY DOESN'T IT EVER WORK? Out of all the billions of people who have lived, wouldn't JUST ONE person have said "I don't want to sin. I'm going to be righteous all my life."
Well, we of course know such a thing is not possible. In fact, most people in the world know it's not possible.



Yea, i think he meant just that. But also to overcome the flesh, is impossible without God. As Ray said: "You cant stop smoking until God wants you to quit"

Thanks guys for your thoughts
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Hellisfake

Dave in Tenn

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Re: What did Ray meant by saying
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2016, 05:59:35 PM »

George, a couple of examples:

2Co 6:4  ...But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
2Co 6:5  In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
2Co 6:6  By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,...

1Pe_1:22  Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently...:

Ray wrote an entire article on the subject.  https://bible-truths.com/kiss.htm

"Joy" can also be 'faked'.  I know that I've sat in meetings where all the emotional levers/buttons are pulled/pushed to provide me with a sense that I was "worshipping", but that sense usually evaporated before I could get myself home.  Surely true Spiritual Joy is present even when things are going badly.  If it can't be "present" ten minutes after it is "felt" then it soulish, not Spiritual.

I won't go down the whole list of the genuine fruit, but maybe these two (one by scripture and the other by experience) will explain what I'm talking about.  If these counterfeits are "satanic" then so be it.  But they are just as likely (to my mind) to be the "best" one can do with a carnal mind.  There's more involved in "flesh" than smoking, drinking, dancing and chasing women.  Some of the most fleshly people out there don't do any of those things.

"And beside this, giving all diligence, ADD TO YOUR FAITH virtue, and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance, and to temperance patience, and to patience godliness; And to godliness brother kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity [LOVE]" (II Pet. 1:5-7).
 
« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 06:10:40 PM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Terry

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Re: What did Ray meant by saying
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2016, 06:25:31 PM »

Regarding your question - Yes, I always have a very hard time (through the whole spectrum of emotions and heartache) - yet, I always have confirmation from Him that He is Directing my steps and is always with me in my pain and suffering, which always passes after I go through His Consuming Fire, and into His Marvelous 'Rest', in 'Peace', in 'His Joy' and in 'His Love'.

Kind Regards.

George

Well said George, me too
Terry
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Terry

cheekie3

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Re: What did Ray meant by saying
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2016, 05:40:37 AM »

Dave in Tenn -

Thank you for providing these Scriptures:

George, a couple of examples:

2Co 6:4  ...But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
2Co 6:5  In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
2Co 6:6  By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,...


1Pe_1:22  Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently...:

Ray wrote an entire article on the subject.  https://bible-truths.com/kiss.htm

"Joy" can also be 'faked'.  I know that I've sat in meetings where all the emotional levers/buttons are pulled/pushed to provide me with a sense that I was "worshipping", but that sense usually evaporated before I could get myself home.  Surely true Spiritual Joy is present even when things are going badly.  If it can't be "present" ten minutes after it is "felt" then it soulish, not Spiritual.

I won't go down the whole list of the genuine fruit, but maybe these two (one by scripture and the other by experience) will explain what I'm talking about.  If these counterfeits are "satanic" then so be it.  But they are just as likely (to my mind) to be the "best" one can do with a carnal mind.  There's more involved in "flesh" than smoking, drinking, dancing and chasing women.  Some of the most fleshly people out there don't do any of those things.

"And beside this, giving all diligence, ADD TO YOUR FAITH virtue, and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance, and to temperance patience, and to patience godliness; And to godliness brother kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity [LOVE]" (II Pet. 1:5-7).

Most Helpful.

I learnt very early about the need for 'The Fruit of The Spirit', when most wanted 'The Gifts of The Holy Spirit'.

Also, I have a saying 'I do not do flattery', and I am very wary when someone gives me a compliment - as I need to ascertain 'if it is genuine, or false (usually, a prelude to something else)' - and Ray wrote very well about Judas Iscariot as His 'kiss'.

Kind Regards.

George

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cheekie3

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Re: What did Ray meant by saying
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2016, 05:44:32 AM »

Terry -

Regarding your question - Yes, I always have a very hard time (through the whole spectrum of emotions and heartache) - yet, I always have confirmation from Him that He is Directing my steps and is always with me in my pain and suffering, which always passes after I go through His Consuming Fire, and into His Marvelous 'Rest', in 'Peace', in 'His Joy' and in 'His Love'.

Kind Regards.

George

Well said George, me too
Terry

It is His Way, and He is Perfect, and it works each and every time - but the heartache and suffering sure is painful - and I believe much more so than a real fire - as there is no relief until He puts us through it all - for His purification purpose in us.

Kind Regards.

George

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