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[octoberose]

George brought up Daniel and the issue of eating meat. As it happens, I've been wanting to talk about food related things.
  My belief about Daniel is that he refused the kings meat not because there was is anything intrinsically wrong with eating meat, but because the meat was either  not prepared according to God's law or the meat was pork.   Daniel did not want to be defiled and God had let them eat meat as long as it followed His guidelines .
  What I want to ask is, do you see a correlation between diet and our spiritual health?  Some of us struggle with weight, some with health issues.  If God knows every hair on our heads, surely He also concerns Himself with our food. Surely nothing in our lives exisit outside of Him.
  Would snyone share their food journey, and how it relates to being  a follower of Christ?
 
 

[cheekie3]

octoberose -

George brought up Daniel and the issue of eating meat. As it happens, I've been wanting to talk about food related things.
  My belief about Daniel is that he refused the kings meat not because there was is anything intrinsically wrong with eating meat, but because the meat was either  not prepared according to God's law or the meat was pork.   Daniel did not want to be defiled and God had let them eat meat as long as it followed His guidelines .
  What I want to ask is, do you see a correlation between diet and our spiritual health?  Some of us struggle with weight, some with health issues.  If God knows every hair on our heads, surely He also concerns Himself with our food. Surely nothing in our lives exisit outside of Him.
  Would snyone share their food journey, and how it relates to being  a follower of Christ?

Without going into any detail - the thing that sticks in my mind is that every living creature (birds, fish, animals, men, women and children) ate fruit, nuts and vegetables before Noah's flood.

Apart from mankind being totally corrupt, and Our Heavenly Father having destroyed those on the land - I know of nothing else that is significant - yet Our Heavenly Father then stated that all living creatures could from then on eat the meat of animals, fish, birds, etc.

We know that Jesus Himself ate fish after He was Resurrected.

I have studied this somewhat, and it appears that we need alkaline foods to stay healthy, but most of us eat acidic foods.

I thought that The Scriptures stated that Daniel did not eat any meat.

Interesting topic, as a lot of people have recently become Vegans, mostly due to the fact that they have discovered how the animals, chickens, and fish are treated.

Kind Regards.

George

 

[Extol]

But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat.-Daniel 1:8

Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.-John 4:34

This is not about eating the flesh of animals. Later in the story, Daniel's friends "refused the king's meat" by not bowing to his statue of gold.

George, I do not agree that all people before the Flood were vegan. I believe people were eating meat long before Adam. But even if they were vegan, how/why is that any kind of impetus for becoming vegan? (You stated in the other thread I have recently become a Vegan, as I have discovered how the animals that we all eat are treated - and I am wondering why I did not do this earlier, as Daniel lived like this, and so did all who lived before the flood.) You say that mankind was totally corrupt. That means we should copy their eating habits?

[lostANDfound]

I won't share my entire food journey but I will say that now, a few months from turning 40, I am probably the healthiest I've ever been since changing how I make food decisions.  I don't give a hoot what the Stroke Foundation, FDA, etc. say is healthy. It's based on how God-made versus human-altered different foods are.  Butter over margerine. Lots of local eggs, wild meat, garden veg, and we raise meat rabbits that run around and soak up the sun and are culled if they're sick instead of injected with junk to keep them "healthy". But if God chooses for me to struggle with sickness again I will, despite my efforts. Healthy eating was becoming an idol for me about seven years ago but I feel like it's been smashed off that pedestal now and it's just a general way of life that doesn't always happen but mostly does. If God intends for my to be sick, I will be, but I don't plan to encourage the matter by eating Doritos and donuts all day. Also, I am only healing, not yet healed of long term heavy metal poisoning. 

[cheekie3]

Jesse -

But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat.-Daniel 1:8

Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.-John 4:34

This is not about eating the flesh of animals. Later in the story, Daniel's friends "refused the king's meat" by not bowing to his statue of gold.

George, I do not agree that all people before the Flood were vegan. I believe people were eating meat long before Adam. But even if they were vegan, how/why is that any kind of impetus for becoming vegan? (You stated in the other thread I have recently become a Vegan, as I have discovered how the animals that we all eat are treated - and I am wondering why I did not do this earlier, as Daniel lived like this, and so did all who lived before the flood.) You say that mankind was totally corrupt. That means we should copy their eating habits?

I do not fully understand about what we are to eat and drink - and I am still researching this.

I am not sure that any ate meat before the flood.

The Scriptural witnesses do not fit right with me on this at the moment.

As I said, Jesus ate fish after He was Resurrected.

I know we are not to judge each other on what we are to eat.

Kind Regards.

George

[cheekie3]

lostANDfound -

I won't share my entire food journey but I will say that now, a few months from turning 40, I am probably the healthiest I've ever been since changing how I make food decisions.  I don't give a hoot what the Stroke Foundation, FDA, etc. say is healthy. It's based on how God-made versus human-altered different foods are.  Butter over margerine. Lots of local eggs, wild meat, garden veg, and we raise meat rabbits that run around and soak up the sun and are culled if they're sick instead of injected with junk to keep them "healthy". But if God chooses for me to struggle with sickness again I will, despite my efforts. Healthy eating was becoming an idol for me about seven years ago but I feel like it's been smashed off that pedestal now and it's just a general way of life that doesn't always happen but mostly does. If God intends for my to be sick, I will be, but I don't plan to encourage the matter by eating Doritos and donuts all day. Also, I am only healing, not yet healed of long term heavy metal poisoning.

May He completely heal you from the heavy metal poisining.

Kind Regards.

George

[Extol]

I do not fully understand about what we are to eat and drink - and I am still researching this.


George

Dear George,

Here is what we are to eat and drink:

John 6:51--I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

John 7:37-38--On the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood up and called out in a loud voice, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. To the one who believes in Me, it is just as the Scripture has said: ‘Streams of living water will flow from within him."

Matthew 5:6--Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.


You say you are unsure of the Scriptural witnesses about whether they ate meat before the flood, but really, is it that important? Isn't it enough to know that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him, because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?”(Mark 7:18-19). Isn't it enough to know that Paul said Let no man judge you in meat or drink? (Col. 2:16)

It is okay to look outside of Scripture for information like this. Scripture is not going to tell us everything about what people ate, how they dressed, what they did for entertainment, etc. Ray valued and respected the work of scientists, and made it clear that he believed in a very old earth and humans (or human-like creatures) before Adam. I haven't studied this at all, but a quick Google search will tell you that most scientists believe the evidence that points to meat consumption a very long time ago. Ray mentioned in one of his studies that one of the animals' Hebrew names--given by Adam--meant to devour. I couldn't find the transcript, and I don't remember what animal; I assume it was a bird of prey.

[cheekie3]

Jesse -

Thank you for posting this; I appreciate this:

I do not fully understand about what we are to eat and drink - and I am still researching this.


George

Dear George,

Here is what we are to eat and drink:

John 6:51--I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

John 7:37-38--On the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood up and called out in a loud voice, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. To the one who believes in Me, it is just as the Scripture has said: ‘Streams of living water will flow from within him."

Matthew 5:6--Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.


You say you are unsure of the Scriptural witnesses about whether they ate meat before the flood, but really, is it that important? Isn't it enough to know that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him, because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?”(Mark 7:18-19). Isn't it enough to know that Paul said Let no man judge you in meat or drink? (Col. 2:16)

It is okay to look outside of Scripture for information like this. Scripture is not going to tell us everything about what people ate, how they dressed, what they did for entertainment, etc. Ray valued and respected the work of scientists, and made it clear that he believed in a very old earth and humans (or human-like creatures) before Adam. I haven't studied this at all, but a quick Google search will tell you that most scientists believe the evidence that points to meat consumption a very long time ago. Ray mentioned in one of his studies that one of the animals' Hebrew names--given by Adam--meant to devour. I couldn't find the transcript, and I don't remember what animal; I assume it was a bird of prey.

I am fully aware of our spiritual food and drink, and have been since He dragged me from this world to Himself - and I have drunk and eaten this each and every day since He revealed Himself to me.

I used to believe that we could eat anything with prayer, and if it was poisoned, it would not harm us - but with all the GMO stuff and what they do to the meat, I am horrified - and hence my research into The Scriptures.

I am aware of the study you mention (and I have read it, and listened to the audios, several times) - and I am aware that Ray stated that there was death before Adam.

I am particularly interested in what mankind was instructed to eat.

I have not found any Scriptures before Noah, whereby mankind was instructed to eat any kind of meat.

It is important to me, if there was a difference between before the flood of Noah, and after.

We are instructed to question everything, and prove all things.

Kind Regards.

George

 

[indianabob]

Hi Octoberose,

In Daniel the English word "meat" may be translated simply as "food" or the kings diet or dainties which could also be simply the fancy food that was prepared for royalty which would include ingredients that were not natural like sauces, gravies, lard and extra sweeteners. Daniel opted to eat plain, naturally grown vegetables with healthy ingredients good for a persons health. Also note that Daniel declined wine which the king afforded all those he favored and which by tradition was thought to be beneficial to keep a person contented. The point if one checks the original words is that "meat" is a general term for food and does not necessarily mean the flesh of animals as we use it today.

George brought up Daniel and the issue of eating meat. As it happens, I've been wanting to talk about food related things.
  My belief about Daniel is that he refused the kings meat not because there was is anything intrinsically wrong with eating meat, but because the meat was either  not prepared according to God's law or the meat was pork.   Daniel did not want to be defiled and God had let them eat meat as long as it followed His guidelines .
  What I want to ask is, do you see a correlation between diet and our spiritual health?  Some of us struggle with weight, some with health issues.  If God knows every hair on our heads, surely He also concerns Himself with our food. Surely nothing in our lives exisit outside of Him.
  Would snyone share their food journey, and how it relates to being  a follower of Christ?

[Rhys 🕊]

I have cut back on a lot of the processed food and prefer taking the basic ingredients and making up my own meals. So much food these days has things in that I don't have a clue what it is so why eat it.

Been losing weight recently so eating better and less and more time doing exercise. I know it makes me feel better and more energy which is good but can't say I feel any spiritual difference in doing so.

I feel the being more disciplined and going without certain things makes me seek truth more but maybe that is more me. Certain things and not only food you do for comfort and take away the comfort you see things in a new light and a desire for the truth becomes more clear and you want more of that.

In saying all of that I still eat at times the things they say you shouldn't but less of it and less often.


Rhys

[lostANDfound]

Thanks George!

[sansmile]

i cant believe what i am reading....Ray would say....forget the literal. We all know people that have lived their lives(especially in Scotland and Ireland) who have lived on bread dipped in dripping the fat of the cow) they have smoked, drank etc. It isnt about food of the land but spiritual meat...
If God lets u live into OLD age having ate all the banned foods?   why?  I am in no way saying. we shouldnt be aware of what we eat, but what it seems to me is, how our parents prepared food was according to where they lived, what money they had, their priorities.... Nowadays convenience foods are cheaper and more available  to all. God giveth and God taketh away, my parents are in their 80's their diet was fried food, so according to the modern day nutritionists...they should have died years ago?

[lilitalienboi16]

i cant believe what i am reading....Ray would say....forget the literal. We all know people that have lived their lives(especially in Scotland and Ireland) who have lived on bread dipped in dripping the fat of the cow) they have smoked, drank etc. It isnt about food of the land but spiritual meat...
If God lets u live into OLD age having ate all the banned foods?   why?  I am in no way saying. we shouldnt be aware of what we eat, but what it seems to me is, how our parents prepared food was according to where they lived, what money they had, their priorities.... Nowadays convenience foods are cheaper and more available  to all. God giveth and God taketh away, my parents are in their 80's their diet was fried food, so according to the modern day nutritionists...they should have died years ago?

I have stayed out of this discussion but I have silently followed.

George mentioned fear as a motivating factor, "I am horrified" he exclaimed, which should be a red flag to all of us as God has not given us a spirit to fear again and perfect love casts out all fear. Indeed try the spirits! We ought to believe Jesus and what He said. If we cannot believe the walking talking living breathing Emannuel then who can we believe? Jesus said don't worry about what you will eat today or tomorrow. Jesse provided many great scriptures. Paul too objected to the fearing and worryng over foods.

You want a budding healthcare proffesional's opinion whom like you was given the holy spirit, I tell you this on my life with the love I have in my heart for you all are my family and with God as my witness I lie not: Eat all things in moderation, if you can, exercise and be as active as possible, if you can, but most importantly do not fear or worry for anything, even the food you eat, for your Father in heaven knows your needs and He has already determined the length of your days and the bounderies which you cannot go past. Don't be overly indulgent in anything! Foods included! Have peace, love God, rejoice, pray without ceasing and in all things giving thanks. Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. Let your light shine before all men. Do not quench the spirit. Love one another that all men may know you belong to Christ. Love God with all your heart and all your soul. Be kind to those who are evil to you and repay no one evil for evil but love your enemies as God does. Be imitators of Christ and the God of peace shall be with you all your days.

19 Quench not the Spirit.
20 Despise not prophesyings.
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
25 Brethren, pray for us.
26 Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss.
27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.
28 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.


1 Therefore, my brethren dearly beloved and longed for, my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved.
2 I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord.
3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.
4 Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice.
5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.
6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

Indeed the kingdom of heaven is not food and drink but righteousness, peace and joy in the spirit.

Do not fear. None may take what belongs to God. He reigns.

Love to all those of the household of God.

Kindly,
Alex

[indianabob]

Thank you Alex,
Kindly received and appreciated.
Friend Indiana Bob

[octoberose]

 I know. I know. Nothing physical can make you spiritual. That doesn't nullify the fact that we are living in physical bodies and they affect us. I agree with everything that Alex said- but truly unless I reign in what I'm eating it is Hard to keep everything in moderation. Modern food is made to overindulge in. High fructose corn syrup is addicting ! Additives  are addicting !  When I stay away from them I am healthier and when I am healthier I feel.... free. Sugar feeds cancer- especially if I was battling cancer would it not be prudent to stay away from sugar? Is that not wise?
 In Romans - 14 I think, the weak brother only eats vegetables.    The food given to idols was just not a big deal to Paul so eat away- but if you can't and if it is sin to you, then that's ok to not eat it.  ) But I'm enjoying a quart of green smoothie from the high speed blender to start my day and I'm telling you I feel better! I'm pretty sure the apostle Paul would approve.  )
 As far as Daniel goes, I really do believe the key to understanding Daniel is that the king's food would have defiled him, in his words. I think it's interesting that meat could mean rich foods, but nothing in the rich sauces were against the dietary laws of Daniels people. To be Defiled is about going against the law of God. For that reason I don't use Daniel as a blueprint on what to eat. And perhaps it was food given to idols and Daniel could not go there and that was part of the problem,  but I don't think it comes out and says that.
 1 Timothy 4:1-4 ESV   
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,
 
 Notice that food made by God is good? How much of our food these days is made in a lab? How much of it is so adulturated that our bodies do not recognize it as food?

I keep thinking about being accountable to God for our actions and I think that has to include everything and that means food too. It is the most basic of needs but it says a lot about us. At least it says a lot about me. Someone reading this is anorexic and lives in that fear that Alex was talking about. I'm so so sorry for your pain.  Someone is bulimic and starves and feasts and purges. I believe when you come out of that God will have taught you so much and you will be able to look at your food with thanksgiving again. Someone, many someones, are overweight and sad. I have been there. I have struggled and lost weight and gained a little back. If God knows every hair on my head He surely knows this and it matters to Him because I matter.
 God's food, in moderation, with thanksgiving. I think that must be the answer.

[John from Kentucky]

God's Elect are free from all food rules.

No one has any authority from God to make any food rules whatsoever.

[octoberose]

I Corinthians 10
   
" All things to me are lawful, but all things are not profitable; all things to me are lawful, but all things do not build up."

Its not about rules .
 

[John from Kentucky]

The Scriptures say in the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established.

I have two questions:

1) Whatever your food rule is, what are your two witnesses in support?

2) What is your authority to teach others your food rules?  Two witnesses please.

[octoberose]

Where is the rules that are being taught ? I see no reason to be so threatened by a discussion .

[Brenda]

I agree with Extol and some of the others here, we should set our minds and hearts on spiritual things for this is what GOD wants for us.  I have noticed in the past year or so that a lot of people on this forum are seeking out the carnal.  This is pretty disturbing. What is happening here.  This is my refuge!