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[Dynamo54]

It took me along time to grasp the reality of God’s sovereignty, and what that means. Like many I was aware of Isaiah 46:10 (Holman Christian Standard Bible). “I declare the end from the beginning, and from long ago what is not yet done, saying: My plan will take place, and I will do all My will.”

At one time I thought that God just knew how all of mankind’s actions would all dovetail together according to their own plans, and God just “saw into the future” how it would all come out.

Of course after studying Ray’s writings on “free will” it made me think. How could even one man’s decisions (their own will), let alone the billions of human actions and resulting impacts from those actions allow for God to “know” what would happen?

Well, the Eternal is God, and is Sovereign, so I have come to realize that ANYTHING that happens was supposed to happen. That is a hard thing at first to understand, and even to accept! All of the hurt and misery and problems that mankind has caused and endured, and will endure, is hard for people to understand how a loving God would “allow” it. But we know that God’s ways and thoughts are infinitely higher and better and purer than ours. And that is just the way it is and has to be.

And I think it takes the faith of Christ (not our faith) to understand that, and I thank God for giving me that understanding.

So in this country I see people planning and scheming and work8ng toward an outcome for the Presidential election, and have comfort knowing that what ever happens was supposed to happen. And that is a good thing to know.

[ralph]

That's wild.  This morning, the Lord had me focused on this scripture, which is in line with what you are discussing:

Psalm 139:15-16
15 My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.

[Bob]

Que Sera Sera  Dittoes,  :)I agree  Bob Florida

[Porter]

One of the first things I learned here at BT was that there is no free will, even if I didn't fully grasp it at the time, it was the best news I had ever heard. Years later, I now know it was probably one of the most important things I will ever learn.

I wish I could find the exact quote, but Ray said something like if we study something that is true, it will consistently show itself to be true as we continue to study it. Just studying in general on any topic will reveal God's love through His sovereignty in our lives.

...I will be their God, and they will be My people. - Heb 8:10

I have to pinch myself very often because it just seems too good to be true sometimes. God's mindfulness of a sinner such as myself just blows me away. I can't even make excuses to Him anymore when I sin in my heart. So I have to constantly remind myself of His power and sovereignty in my life.

So I don't have much of an idea of where you are in your understanding of God's sovereignty aside from what you've said here. If you would allow me to give you a little advice, it would be based on this parable, as it has a lot to do with the belief in free will.

1Co 5:9  I wrote to you in a letter not to associate with sexually immoral people--

1Co 5:10  by no means referring to this world's immoral people, or to the greedy and swindlers, or to idolaters; otherwise you would have to leave the world.

1Co 5:11  But now I am writing you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother who is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a reviler, a drunkard or a swindler. Do not even eat with such a person.

1Co 5:12  For what is it to me to judge outsiders? Do you not judge those who are inside?

1Co 5:13  But God judges outsiders. Put away the evil person from among yourselves.

I agree that whatever happens is supposed to happen. Everyone gets an A+ in the school of life as far as God is concerned. We just need to learn to stand in that.

[arion]

And adding to the above I tell myself something almost every day considering how crazy the world is becoming and that is,

'If there was a better way for God to fulfill his plan for humanity he would do it that way.'

It is all going the exact way it is supposed to go and despite the turmoil God has everything under complete control.

[mike kyner]

in my experience the idea that man doesn't have a "free will" is hated by all (almost all) both secular and religious folks worse than any other

[Musterseed]

I agree Mike.
Matt.10: 34-35…. Think not that I come to send peace on earth: I came not to send
peace but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father and
the daughter against their mother and the daughters in law against the mother in law.

Witness Micah 7:5 and 6

Variance, dichazo, to cut asunder, dis unite, allinate,to cause to disagree.

It took me awhile and lots of persecution from my own family to learn to “be
still and know that I am God”.
Trying to explain to an unbelieving free willer that they don’t have free will is futile and yet
it’s all in the plan of God for us. Jesus said , “ if they hated me, they will hate you”

Knowing now that it’s for His sake and His plan makes it easier for me to shut up

[arion]

in my experience the idea that man doesn't have a "free will" is hated by all (almost all) both secular and religious folks worse than any other

And that is one thing that almost all the adherents of the various religions (even the Christian one) agree upon as well as the atheists, agnostics and pagans.  Ask everyone of them if they have a free will and they will vociferously agree upon that one point even if they agree on nothing else.

Pretty remarkable for the Christians as Jesus clearly said;

Jhn 6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

And of course we know the word 'draw' means to drag by force.

Jhn 15:16  Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

And the word 'not' in the Greek is emphatic.

It's all of God including our salvation on his timeline.  As Ray had taught that the whole concept of free will is lawless and one of the idols of the heart that needs to be destroyed.

[Rene]

There is freedom in knowing and believing that God is totally in control and that man has no free will.  Whenever I become too anxious about this world we live in, I am reminded of these amazing truths and thank God for this understanding.   

John 8:32 - "and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."