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[Musterseed]

Hello my friends, hope you are all well.
I remember Ray saying" there ain't no atheists in fox holes or rubber rafts on the ocean"
My own experience with the Lord was one of paralysing fear that brought me to my knees begging for mercy and to repentance when I finally was allowed to know what was happening to me.
The Lord works on us individually right, but lately I have been wondering if this is what's happening collectively to the world itself, because there is so much fear of war, immigrant crisis,
Elections, protests etc,. I'm just thinking if anything can change people's minds(repentance) it is fear of losing jobs, homes, finances, the planet etc. Is God , was God and will be God using fear to have every knee bow and every tongue confess, in increments? I hope I was able to make my point, I'm not the best at expressing myself.    Thanks        🙏🏼 Pamela

[Rhys 🕊]

There has always been fear. Is there more today than in the past. Hard to imagine being through wars with bombs falling all around you that amount of fear for people. Is there more fear today or just more of it being reported.

The world is the world and will continue to be

Mat 6:25  "Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing?
Mat 6:26  Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they?
Mat 6:27  And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life?
Mat 6:28  And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin,
Mat 6:29  yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
Mat 6:30  But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?
Mat 6:31  Therefore do not be anxious, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?'
Mat 6:32  For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all.
Mat 6:33  But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
Mat 6:34  "Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

Man will continue to fear and the majority will continue to do so as only a few are being saved at this time. As the passage above says but seek first the kingdom and his righteousness. How many do that, only the few.

The following passage sums up the world better than I can and it's just the same today

1Jn 4:1  Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2  By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
1Jn 4:3  and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.
1Jn 4:4  Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.
1Jn 4:5  They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them.
1Jn 4:6  We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
1Jn 4:7  Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God.
1Jn 4:8  Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
1Jn 4:9  In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him.
1Jn 4:10  In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
1Jn 4:11  Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
1Jn 4:12  No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.
1Jn 4:13  By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.
1Jn 4:14  And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
1Jn 4:15  Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
1Jn 4:16  So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
1Jn 4:17  By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world.
1Jn 4:18  There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
1Jn 4:19  We love because he first loved us.
1Jn 4:20  If anyone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.
1Jn 4:21  And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother. 

The church will tell you that salvation is easy, a quick prayer and your there. Not true, salvation is the hardest thing you can to do. If you think dealing with the flesh will be solved with a quick prayer then you are sorely mistaken. God is doing His will in each. Nothing happens outside of His will. If there is more fear then his process of getting saved will still be the same.

1Pe 5:6  Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you,
1Pe 5:7  casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you.

We will all have to do that with the fear we have. The point is not whether there is more fear today but an understanding for us who can see, what we do with it. We can't do this in a group. God deals with each of us in His time as He wills.


Ray must of had a good understanding of this when replying to this guy 

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3637.msg27158.html#msg27158

Hello Mr. Smith,   I have been reading your website for some time now I am praying for you for I fear that you do not wish for God to be God but a god that you can fully understand which we never will and we will have eternity a learn about Him.  As to hell not existing why would God bother with heaven if no hell?  Why reward with out punishment?  Your logic is not sound.  The lake fire appears in Revelation 19: 20 than again in Revelation 20:10-15.  Do you not believe that the book of Revelation is not part of the bible?  I pray that you will come to the saving knowledge fo Jesus Christ for I fear you not a saved man and will one day find yourself in that very place you so fear.  Timothy
 
Timothy: I fear your Christian hell about as much as I fear you.
Ray


Rhys

[cheekie3]

Pamela -

There are different terms for fear in the Holy Scriptures:

Hello my friends, hope you are all well.
I remember Ray saying" there ain't no atheists in fox holes or rubber rafts on the ocean"
My own experience with the Lord was one of paralysing fear that brought me to my knees begging for mercy and to repentance when I finally was allowed to know what was happening to me.
The Lord works on us individually right, but lately I have been wondering if this is what's happening collectively to the world itself, because there is so much fear of war, immigrant crisis,
Elections, protests etc,. I'm just thinking if anything can change people's minds(repentance) it is fear of losing jobs, homes, finances, the planet etc. Is God , was God and will be God using fear to have every knee bow and every tongue confess, in increments? I hope I was able to make my point, I'm not the best at expressing myself.    Thanks        🙏🏼 Pamela

Here are what I recollect from the Holy Scriptures:

1. The Fear of The Lord is the beginning of Knowledge.
2. The Fear of The Lord is the beginning of Wisdom.
3. Perfect Love casteth out Fear.
4. The timid and fearful will have their part on the 'Lake of Fire' or 'The second Death'.
5. His Elect must Reverence Him and not fear man or what man can do to His Elect.
6. Love, in one respect, is the opposite of Fear.
7. Fear not and Trust in Him, as He will provide ALL your needs.

To me, these are the weapons / characteristics of Satan (from his beginning) used against mankind:

A. A Murderer.
B. A Liar.
C. A Deceiver as 'he deceives the whole world'.
D. A Tormentor of mankind as 'Fear has Torment'.
E. A Manipulator as he may speak a little Truth but always mixed with 'The Levine of The Pharisees'.
F. A Power Monger as he rules the world of mankind and its systems.
G. An Authoritarian as he demands obedience without question.
   
I personally do not believe any of His Elect can mix and match 'The Commandments of Almighty God' with the 'assumed authority' of 'Satan's kingdom' over 'The Kingdom of God' - as His Elect are warned that they cannot serve two masters (either His Elect Obey His Commandments or they serve the mammon of Satan).

I believe these three New Testament Scriptures are key to His Elect understanding that they must 'Fear Him' but not 'Fear Satan or what mankind can do to His Elect':

2 Timothy 1:7 (KJV):
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

1 John 4:18 (KJV):
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Revelation 21:8 (KJV):
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

I hope this helps you a little.

Warmest Regards.

George.

[Musterseed]

Thanks so much, what lovely scriptures, I learn so much here. I used to have a lot of fear but God removed it from me by using fear itself to make me strong. Now I just say Thy will be done and know that no matter what happens, it is His will.
"So,we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God and God abides in him.(1John16)
So simple and beautiful. I never want to go back to the old self, I was so naive.
2 John... Introduction.... Only when you find agreement on sound doctrine will you find meaningful fellowship.  Rhys and George, thank you both and May God Bless You.       Pamela

[Pini56]

Hello,

First of all We should have nothing to Fear because:

1. God Created Satin to be a Murderer;

2. God Created Satin to be a Liar;

3. God Created Satin to be The Deceiver;

4. God Created Satin to be The Tormentor:

5. God Created Satin to Manipulate;

6. God Created Satin to have Power over The Nations;

7.God Created Satin to have Authority in Certain Respects;

But in all of this he is under the Complete Control of our Heavenly Father.

Most of Christendom think that Satin is running Amuck; Hence the Fear.

Assuming that we know the Truth about this, we should have absolutely nothing to Fear. But:

Mat 10:28  And Fear not them which Kill the Body, but are not able to Kill the Soul: but rather Fear Him which is able to destroy both Soul and Body in Gehenna.

If we constantly Seek the Lord in everything we do and in our Hearts we want to do the Right Thing, keeping ourselves in Right Standing with Him, then there should be no Fear.

But be aware that Trials are sent to Test our Faith. Some of these Trials are very Severe. But if you are Tried this way you will Learn Ultimately to be Obedient and to Trust Him in all that you do. You then will have True Freedom. Fear the Lord ( Be In Awe Of Him) because he is the One that Saves you.

Love to you all, Regards Geoff.







 

[Porter]

Is God , was God and will be God using fear to have every knee bow and every tongue confess, in increments? I hope I was able to make my point, I'm not the best at expressing myself.    Thanks        🙏🏼 Pamela

Hi Pamela,

One of the things that lead me to the truth was the fear of going to hell because my sins seemed too great that not even God could save me. I even came to the point where I accepted I was indeed destined for hell, and even told God that if my loved ones are there then that is where I would rather be also.

 I knew something was wrong with this horrible doctrine, so it seems God inspired me to seek the truth which eventually lead me to bible truths website, and the rest is history It was quite humbling to find out that God was responsible with everything that was wrong in my life. So possibly by humbling the masses (each in his own order), inspiring them and gracing them will they willingly bow their knees and confess Jesus as Lord because for the first time they will understand that God is  patient, merciful and God is love and love never fails. 

The Apostle Paul said the way in which he was caused to believe and become converted is an example for how God will save everyone.

Act 9:3  As he traveled and was nearing Damascus, a light from heaven suddenly flashed around him.
Act 9:4  Falling to the ground, he heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?"
Act 9:5  "Who are You, Lord?" he said. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," He replied.
Act 9:6  "But get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."

1Ti 1:12  I give thanks to Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, appointing me to the ministry--
1Ti 1:13  one who was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an arrogant man. Since it was out of ignorance that I had acted in unbelief, I received mercy,
1Ti 1:14  and the grace of our Lord overflowed, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
1Ti 1:15  This saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance: "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners"--and I am the worst of them.
1Ti 1:16  But I received mercy because of this, so that in me, the worst of them, Christ Jesus might demonstrate the utmost patience as an example to those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

God seemed to have used fear with Paul to get his attention with the light that blinded Paul, but then afterwards God not only gave him his physical sight back, but God also removed the scales from his eyes so Paul could see the Truth.

Scriptures say there is a coming wrath upon the ungodly, so maybe this is how God will get humanities attention, then afterwards judgment, repentance and healing can begin.

I love that story of how God was saving Paul, it just gives me so much hope for everyone.

[Rhys 🕊]

Great passage and encouraging with the fear man has how God will intervene for each one in His way at His time. The church thinks God will do it for some but not for most. What a terrible injustice they put on God with such belief.

Rhys

[Musterseed]

Hello Porter and Rhys
Its heartbreaking I know. My husbands cousins are all messed up from believing that vile teaching.
But when we visited them this summer I noticed they weren't going to church much anymore and were talking about how they were tricked by the Catholic Church. I told them of Issah 45 and
That hell is a lie. My friend Mary was so relieved because her fifteen year old son committed suiside
And she believed he was in purgatory waiting to be judged. Anyway they were attentive and Mary has since become an advocate for suiside prevention. That's Gods Mercy right there. And our other friend has come out of her altogether and said" why should I have to confess to a priest when I can go straight to Jesus" how wonderful is the Lord. There is so much Hope in The Lord, I see changes every day. Yes it was fear that brought Paul to his knees and fear that brought me to my knees. I think it will be fear that brings the world to its knees. I really want to see the looks on those hypocrites faces when they see Jesus and then I would like to help them, for they need it the most.
God be with you.         Pamela

[cheekie3]

Pamela -

It is very encouraging when the seeds of His Words are planted, and over time, start to bear fruit:

Hello Porter and Rhys
Its heartbreaking I know. My husbands cousins are all messed up from believing that vile teaching.
But when we visited them this summer I noticed they weren't going to church much anymore and were talking about how they were tricked by the Catholic Church. I told them of Issah 45 and
That hell is a lie. My friend Mary was so relieved because her fifteen year old son committed suiside
And she believed he was in purgatory waiting to be judged. Anyway they were attentive and Mary has since become an advocate for suiside prevention. That's Gods Mercy right there. And our other friend has come out of her altogether and said" why should I have to confess to a priest when I can go straight to Jesus" how wonderful is the Lord. There is so much Hope in The Lord, I see changes every day. Yes it was fear that brought Paul to his knees and fear that brought me to my knees. I think it will be fear that brings the world to its knees. I really want to see the looks on those hypocrites faces when they see Jesus and then I would like to help them, for they need it the most.
God be with you.         Pamela

All -

I just want to focus on the distinction between 'fear' and 'The Fear of The Lord'.

Unless I have got this completely wrong about Saul of Tarsus, it was not 'fear' that stopped him in His Tracks, it was The One he was persecuting (Jesus Christ Himself). Saul thought that he was righteous and was doing God's work, and I do not see that Saul was 'fearful' in what he was doing - as he was probably pleased with himself for 'doing his own good works'. If anything, Saul knew that it was God Himself who struck him down, and He identified Himself as Jesus (who Saul was persecuting).

Therefore, the only possible fear Saul could have had, as I see it, is that, Saul may have thought something like 'I thought I was serving God, when in fact I was fighting against Him and His Followers' - and yes, I am merely speculating here.

So, if Saul was in any kind of fear when Jesus struck him down, it could not be the 'fear that we are warned has torment' - it can perhaps, be, 'The Fear of The Lord' - as 'The Fear of The Lord' is both 'The Beginning of Knowledge', and also, 'The Beginning of Wisdom'.

When Saul was Named Paul by Jesus Christ, Paul certainly was given By Him an abundance of 'Knowledge' and 'Wisdom', which we all cherish as 'Gems of His Truths', and 'The deep Things of Almighty God'.

I do not see Saul was in fear - like some may be - of say, going to hell; as Saul thought he was 'righteous in doing God's work'.

To me, Saul was struck down by Jesus Christ - and Saul most certainly knew 'The Fear of The Lord'.

Warmest Regards.

George

[Porter]

Pamela -

It is very encouraging when the seeds of His Words are planted, and over time, start to bear fruit:

Hello Porter and Rhys
Its heartbreaking I know. My husbands cousins are all messed up from believing that vile teaching.
But when we visited them this summer I noticed they weren't going to church much anymore and were talking about how they were tricked by the Catholic Church. I told them of Issah 45 and
That hell is a lie. My friend Mary was so relieved because her fifteen year old son committed suiside
And she believed he was in purgatory waiting to be judged. Anyway they were attentive and Mary has since become an advocate for suiside prevention. That's Gods Mercy right there. And our other friend has come out of her altogether and said" why should I have to confess to a priest when I can go straight to Jesus" how wonderful is the Lord. There is so much Hope in The Lord, I see changes every day. Yes it was fear that brought Paul to his knees and fear that brought me to my knees. I think it will be fear that brings the world to its knees. I really want to see the looks on those hypocrites faces when they see Jesus and then I would like to help them, for they need it the most.
God be with you.         Pamela

All -

I just want to focus on the distinction between 'fear' and 'The Fear of The Lord'.

Unless I have got this completely wrong about Saul of Tarsus, it was not 'fear' that stopped him in His Tracks, it was The One he was persecuting (Jesus Christ Himself). Saul thought that he was righteous and was doing God's work, and I do not see that Saul was 'fearful' in what he was doing - as he was probably pleased with himself for 'doing his own good works'. If anything, Saul knew that it was God Himself who struck him down, and He identified Himself as Jesus (who Saul was persecuting).

Therefore, the only possible fear Saul could have had, as I see it, is that, Saul may have thought something like 'I thought I was serving God, when in fact I was fighting against Him and His Followers' - and yes, I am merely speculating here.

So, if Saul was in any kind of fear when Jesus struck him down, it could not be the 'fear that we are warned has torment' - it can perhaps, be, 'The Fear of The Lord' - as 'The Fear of The Lord' is both 'The Beginning of Knowledge', and also, 'The Beginning of Wisdom'.

When Saul was Named Paul by Jesus Christ, Paul certainly was given By Him an abundance of 'Knowledge' and 'Wisdom', which we all cherish as 'Gems of His Truths', and 'The deep Things of Almighty God'.

I do not see Saul was in fear - like some may be - of say, going to hell; as Saul thought he was 'righteous in doing God's work'.

To me, Saul was struck down by Jesus Christ - and Saul most certainly knew 'The Fear of The Lord'.

Warmest Regards.

George

Pamela -


It is very encouraging when the seeds of His Words are planted, and over time, start to bear fruit:

Hello Porter and Rhys
Its heartbreaking I know. My husbands cousins are all messed up from believing that vile teaching.
But when we visited them this summer I noticed they weren't going to church much anymore and were talking about how they were tricked by the Catholic Church. I told them of Issah 45 and
That hell is a lie. My friend Mary was so relieved because her fifteen year old son committed suiside
And she believed he was in purgatory waiting to be judged. Anyway they were attentive and Mary has since become an advocate for suiside prevention. That's Gods Mercy right there. And our other friend has come out of her altogether and said" why should I have to confess to a priest when I can go straight to Jesus" how wonderful is the Lord. There is so much Hope in The Lord, I see changes every day. Yes it was fear that brought Paul to his knees and fear that brought me to my knees. I think it will be fear that brings the world to its knees. I really want to see the looks on those hypocrites faces when they see Jesus and then I would like to help them, for they need it the most.
God be with you.         Pamela

All -


I just want to focus on the distinction between 'fear' and 'The Fear of The Lord'.


Unless I have got this completely wrong about Saul of Tarsus, it was not 'fear' that stopped him in His Tracks, it was The One he was persecuting (Jesus Christ Himself). Saul thought that he was righteous and was doing God's work, and I do not see that Saul was 'fearful' in what he was doing - as he was probably pleased with himself for 'doing his own good works'. If anything, Saul knew that it was God Himself who struck him down, and He identified Himself as Jesus (who Saul was persecuting).


Therefore, the only possible fear Saul could have had, as I see it, is that, Saul may have thought something like 'I thought I was serving God, when in fact I was fighting against Him and His Followers' - and yes, I am merely speculating here.


So, if Saul was in any kind of fear when Jesus struck him down, it could not be the 'fear that we are warned has torment' - it can perhaps, be, 'The Fear of The Lord' - as 'The Fear of The Lord' is both 'The Beginning of Knowledge', and also, 'The Beginning of Wisdom'.


When Saul was Named Paul by Jesus Christ, Paul certainly was given By Him an abundance of 'Knowledge' and 'Wisdom', which we all cherish as 'Gems of His Truths', and 'The deep Things of Almighty God'.


I do not see Saul was in fear - like some may be - of say, going to hell; as Saul thought he was 'righteous in doing God's work'.


To me, Saul was struck down by Jesus Christ - and Saul most certainly knew 'The Fear of The Lord'.


Warmest Regards.


George

This seems to be directed toward me a little bit with my comments about God using fear to get Paul's attention. So here is how Im coming to this conclusion.


Pay attention to all the words.


Act 9:3  And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
Act 9:4  And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Act 9:5  And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Act 9:6  And he trembling (G5141) and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.



G5141
τρέμω
tremō
trem'-o
Strengthened from a primary word τρέω treō (to “dread”, “terrify”); to “tremble” or fear: - be afraid, trembling.


Also I never said Paul was afraid of going to a fabled hell of eternal torture, as Im sure he never even heard of such a doctrine. Im the one who was afraid of that fable, and it was one of the reasons I was caused to search out the truth.


Of course it was Jesus who stopped Paul, but it was the manner in which He stopped Paul that got my attention. Is not how God was saving Paul a "pattern" for how God will save all? Or does that part not count? This is an honest question because I always consider I may be wrong. Is the "pattern" ONLY about God showing patience? Yeah I can see how that could be. It's just hard to imagine non elect people not "trembling" like Paul did when Jesus shows up brighter then anything you can imagine.


The point is that God can use fear for an ultimately good outcome, just like He can use evil for good. I personally dont see anything wrong with fear as it is a natural emotion God created us with. It can actually be quite beneficial in some circumstances. But that's just my opinion right or wrong. Fear is fear and I dont need to know all the types to understand it. Besides, My poor confused little brain might explode if I try to understand what the fear of the Lord means.


I really like what Ray said here in reference to the way in which God will make sinners volunteer to repent. Enjoy.


https://bible-truths.com/lake3.html


Here’s the lesson: If Jesus Christ can bring to repentance, and convert, and save the WORLD’S WORST SINNER THAT HAS EVER LIVED in about 30 seconds, then that drunken cussing uncle of yours (the one you believe is going to hell for all eternity), is NO MATCH FOR THE CONVERTING POWER OF JESUS CHRIST! And ALL OF THE LESSER SINNERS of the world also are no match for the converting, saving power of Jesus Christ. Once the Giant of all sinners has been conquered, converting the sinning MIDGETS will be an easy task!
[/size]Has no one ever considered what would happen if God were to strike down Hitler with a BLINDING LIGHT FROM HEAVEN? Do you really think he would shake his fist toward heaven in total human defiance? Well, if you do, you think as a fool! Paul despised the Church of the Loving God. He hated it with evey fiber of his being. He went to great length and personal hardship to seek out and TORTURE the Saints of God. But when God struck him down with a blinding light from heaven, Paul "trembled"(Greek, tremo, dreadful and terrifying FEAR), and was "astonished" (Greek: thambeo, to stupefy, astound, amaze, astonish), and melted like jelly in the noonday SUN!
[/size]And some would suppose that Hitler or any LESSER sinner would do otherwise? Well, God didn’t strike down Hitler with a blinding light from heaven, but guess what? HE WILL YET DO IT! And when He does, Hitler will sob like a babbling idiot! He will violently shake and tremble in UTTER DESPAIR AND TERROR, and he will REPENT, make no mistake about it! OUR GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE! God has ways to MAKE carnal-minded, God-defying men and women VOLUNTEER real fast!

[cheekie3]

Porter -

Thank you for pointing all this out:

Pamela -

It is very encouraging when the seeds of His Words are planted, and over time, start to bear fruit:

Hello Porter and Rhys
Its heartbreaking I know. My husbands cousins are all messed up from believing that vile teaching.
But when we visited them this summer I noticed they weren't going to church much anymore and were talking about how they were tricked by the Catholic Church. I told them of Issah 45 and
That hell is a lie. My friend Mary was so relieved because her fifteen year old son committed suiside
And she believed he was in purgatory waiting to be judged. Anyway they were attentive and Mary has since become an advocate for suiside prevention. That's Gods Mercy right there. And our other friend has come out of her altogether and said" why should I have to confess to a priest when I can go straight to Jesus" how wonderful is the Lord. There is so much Hope in The Lord, I see changes every day. Yes it was fear that brought Paul to his knees and fear that brought me to my knees. I think it will be fear that brings the world to its knees. I really want to see the looks on those hypocrites faces when they see Jesus and then I would like to help them, for they need it the most.
God be with you.         Pamela

All -

I just want to focus on the distinction between 'fear' and 'The Fear of The Lord'.

Unless I have got this completely wrong about Saul of Tarsus, it was not 'fear' that stopped him in His Tracks, it was The One he was persecuting (Jesus Christ Himself). Saul thought that he was righteous and was doing God's work, and I do not see that Saul was 'fearful' in what he was doing - as he was probably pleased with himself for 'doing his own good works'. If anything, Saul knew that it was God Himself who struck him down, and He identified Himself as Jesus (who Saul was persecuting).

Therefore, the only possible fear Saul could have had, as I see it, is that, Saul may have thought something like 'I thought I was serving God, when in fact I was fighting against Him and His Followers' - and yes, I am merely speculating here.

So, if Saul was in any kind of fear when Jesus struck him down, it could not be the 'fear that we are warned has torment' - it can perhaps, be, 'The Fear of The Lord' - as 'The Fear of The Lord' is both 'The Beginning of Knowledge', and also, 'The Beginning of Wisdom'.

When Saul was Named Paul by Jesus Christ, Paul certainly was given By Him an abundance of 'Knowledge' and 'Wisdom', which we all cherish as 'Gems of His Truths', and 'The deep Things of Almighty God'.

I do not see Saul was in fear - like some may be - of say, going to hell; as Saul thought he was 'righteous in doing God's work'.

To me, Saul was struck down by Jesus Christ - and Saul most certainly knew 'The Fear of The Lord'.

Warmest Regards.

George

Pamela -


It is very encouraging when the seeds of His Words are planted, and over time, start to bear fruit:

Hello Porter and Rhys
Its heartbreaking I know. My husbands cousins are all messed up from believing that vile teaching.
But when we visited them this summer I noticed they weren't going to church much anymore and were talking about how they were tricked by the Catholic Church. I told them of Issah 45 and
That hell is a lie. My friend Mary was so relieved because her fifteen year old son committed suiside
And she believed he was in purgatory waiting to be judged. Anyway they were attentive and Mary has since become an advocate for suiside prevention. That's Gods Mercy right there. And our other friend has come out of her altogether and said" why should I have to confess to a priest when I can go straight to Jesus" how wonderful is the Lord. There is so much Hope in The Lord, I see changes every day. Yes it was fear that brought Paul to his knees and fear that brought me to my knees. I think it will be fear that brings the world to its knees. I really want to see the looks on those hypocrites faces when they see Jesus and then I would like to help them, for they need it the most.
God be with you.         Pamela

All -


I just want to focus on the distinction between 'fear' and 'The Fear of The Lord'.


Unless I have got this completely wrong about Saul of Tarsus, it was not 'fear' that stopped him in His Tracks, it was The One he was persecuting (Jesus Christ Himself). Saul thought that he was righteous and was doing God's work, and I do not see that Saul was 'fearful' in what he was doing - as he was probably pleased with himself for 'doing his own good works'. If anything, Saul knew that it was God Himself who struck him down, and He identified Himself as Jesus (who Saul was persecuting).


Therefore, the only possible fear Saul could have had, as I see it, is that, Saul may have thought something like 'I thought I was serving God, when in fact I was fighting against Him and His Followers' - and yes, I am merely speculating here.


So, if Saul was in any kind of fear when Jesus struck him down, it could not be the 'fear that we are warned has torment' - it can perhaps, be, 'The Fear of The Lord' - as 'The Fear of The Lord' is both 'The Beginning of Knowledge', and also, 'The Beginning of Wisdom'.


When Saul was Named Paul by Jesus Christ, Paul certainly was given By Him an abundance of 'Knowledge' and 'Wisdom', which we all cherish as 'Gems of His Truths', and 'The deep Things of Almighty God'.


I do not see Saul was in fear - like some may be - of say, going to hell; as Saul thought he was 'righteous in doing God's work'.


To me, Saul was struck down by Jesus Christ - and Saul most certainly knew 'The Fear of The Lord'.


Warmest Regards.


George

This seems to be directed toward me a little bit with my comments about God using fear to get Paul's attention. So here is how Im coming to this conclusion.


Pay attention to all the words.


Act 9:3  And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
Act 9:4  And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Act 9:5  And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Act 9:6  And he trembling (G5141) and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.



G5141
τρέμω
tremō
trem'-o
Strengthened from a primary word τρέω treō (to “dread”, “terrify”); to “tremble” or fear: - be afraid, trembling.


Also I never said Paul was afraid of going to a fabled hell of eternal torture, as Im sure he never even heard of such a doctrine. Im the one who was afraid of that fable, and it was one of the reasons I was caused to search out the truth.


Of course it was Jesus who stopped Paul, but it was the manner in which He stopped Paul that got my attention. Is not how God was saving Paul a "pattern" for how God will save all? Or does that part not count? This is an honest question because I always consider I may be wrong. Is the "pattern" ONLY about God showing patience? Yeah I can see how that could be. It's just hard to imagine non elect people not "trembling" like Paul did when Jesus shows up brighter then anything you can imagine.


The point is that God can use fear for an ultimately good outcome, just like He can use evil for good. I personally dont see anything wrong with fear as it is a natural emotion God created us with. It can actually be quite beneficial in some circumstances. But that's just my opinion right or wrong. Fear is fear and I dont need to know all the types to understand it. Besides, My poor confused little brain might explode if I try to understand what the fear of the Lord means.


I really like what Ray said here in reference to the way in which God will make sinners volunteer to repent. Enjoy.


https://bible-truths.com/lake3.html


Here’s the lesson: If Jesus Christ can bring to repentance, and convert, and save the WORLD’S WORST SINNER THAT HAS EVER LIVED in about 30 seconds, then that drunken cussing uncle of yours (the one you believe is going to hell for all eternity), is NO MATCH FOR THE CONVERTING POWER OF JESUS CHRIST! And ALL OF THE LESSER SINNERS of the world also are no match for the converting, saving power of Jesus Christ. Once the Giant of all sinners has been conquered, converting the sinning MIDGETS will be an easy task!
[/size]Has no one ever considered what would happen if God were to strike down Hitler with a BLINDING LIGHT FROM HEAVEN? Do you really think he would shake his fist toward heaven in total human defiance? Well, if you do, you think as a fool! Paul despised the Church of the Loving God. He hated it with evey fiber of his being. He went to great length and personal hardship to seek out and TORTURE the Saints of God. But when God struck him down with a blinding light from heaven, Paul "trembled"(Greek, tremo, dreadful and terrifying FEAR), and was "astonished" (Greek: thambeo, to stupefy, astound, amaze, astonish), and melted like jelly in the noonday SUN!
[/size]And some would suppose that Hitler or any LESSER sinner would do otherwise? Well, God didn’t strike down Hitler with a blinding light from heaven, but guess what? HE WILL YET DO IT! And when He does, Hitler will sob like a babbling idiot! He will violently shake and tremble in UTTER DESPAIR AND TERROR, and he will REPENT, make no mistake about it! OUR GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE! God has ways to MAKE carnal-minded, God-defying men and women VOLUNTEER real fast!

You are absolutely correct in your your understanding of the Scriptural use of the word 'fear' (trembling) - and your conclusion is also sound.

I was wrong, and in error, on this point; and I apologise to you, and to all the other Forum users.

It does indeed point to The Lord using fear (trembling) to stop Saul in his tracks.

I see that now.

I am grateful that you took the time to explain this so thoroughly and clearly.

Warmest Regards.

George

 

[Porter]

It's all good George. Sometimes Im not very clear or even very sure about what Im trying to say. Just as an fyi, I don't fear God like the way I used to before learning the truth. The subject of fearing God is a tough one for me personally. I read in the bible to fear Him, and I read others say not to fear Him. I guess the only reason to fear Him at this point is if we sin willingly?



Heb 10:26  For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27  But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.


That fiery indignation stuff sounds scary lol. 


Forgive me Pamela if I went off topic a bit, so I'll just shut up now.

[cheekie3]

Porter -

Thank you for sharing your insight on this, and you explain your understanding very clearly:

It's all good George. Sometimes Im not very clear or even very sure about what Im trying to say. Just as an fyi, I don't fear God like the way I used to before learning the truth. The subject of fearing God is a tough one for me personally. I read in the bible to fear Him, and I read others say not to fear Him. I guess the only reason to fear Him at this point is if we sin willingly?



Heb 10:26  For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27  But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.


That fiery indignation stuff sounds scary lol. 


Forgive me Pamela if I went off topic a bit, so I'll just shut up now.

I personally believe, that if anyone's heart's desire is to please Him and Obey His Commandments, then He will ensure that He 'keeps them In Himself'.

Regarding 'The Fear of The Lord'; and also 'The Beginning of Knowledge', and 'The Beginning of Wisdom' - I have always loved 'The Book of Proverbs' and 'The Wisdom' it contains - and Ray mentioned 'That The Principle Thing is Wisdom', and in Scripture (I think in The Psalms), there are Verses that state that 'The Principle Thing is Wisdom', and 'In Wisdom He Is Creating'.

We all know 'That His People perish because they lack Knowledge'.

To me, He first drags His Elect to Himself, whereby He starts to impart 'His Knowledge' to His Elect - and from 'His Knowledge', His Elect begin to understand 'His Wisdom'.

So if we turn this around, we can perhaps, say, because His Elect desire 'His Knowledge', and 'His Wisdom', His Elect have 'The Fear of The Lord'.

So what exactly is 'The Fear of The Lord'?

To me, 'The Fear of The Lord' includes an understanding of the following:

1. An acknowledgement that He Is and Has Always Been, and Will Continue to Be.
2. All is of Him and from Him and for Him.
3. He is a Consuming Fire Who refines His Elect into pure and precious unique precious stones.
4. He is Sovereign.
5. We are not free to do our own wills.
6. His Will (and His Intentions) Will always Be Done.
7. He is Life, Light and Love.
8. He is Our Heavenly Father.

In summary, if His Elect have 'The Fear of The Lord', they Reverence Him, as only He can create life (and if He so desired, only He can destroy life - remember that physical death is not the end of anyone's life).

Warmest Regards.

George

[Dennis Vogel]

Ray uses the word 'punish' in this video: https://youtu.be/o5YCfZQ7XfU

And Ray said "Getting Saved is the Hardest Thing You Will Ever Do in Your Life"

[cheekie3]

Dennis -

Thank you for sharing this audio:

Ray uses the word 'punish' in this video: https://youtu.be/o5YCfZQ7XfU

And Ray said "Getting Saved is the Hardest Thing You Will Ever Do in Your Life"

I listened to it again; and Ray clarifies the True meaning of 'Grace', and 'Faith' - and indeed expounds on what 'Grace' actually does in us (in our hearts) - and that although it is all of God, we must 'walk in the steps He prepared for us' in order for 'His Grace' and 'His Faith' to 'Work in us', as He is 'Creating mankind In His (Spiritual) Image'.

Warmest Regards.

George


 

[Musterseed]

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matt10:28

I way I saw it, was if I was gungho on persecuting Gods people and He showed up and stopped me in my tracks and blinded me, I would be full of fear.
At the time I don't think Saul knew that knowledge was the fear of the Lord, the way we understand it now, but once God changed him to Paul, the Lord taught him.
I do not fear the Lord that He would hurt me, I fear that I would hurt Him, I don't want to disappoint Him. I want to be be a good daughter, I want to be faithful and brave like Ester. I am a living sacrifice, I understand this and I know I have to give up my carnel life to attain my spiritual
Life.In the beginning my family persecuted me, I lost friends, and my husband told me I was selfish, but I warned them all, if any of you try to take this away from me, I will leave all of you and I meant it. I told my children that God comes first before anyone. God uses evil to do good and He brought me to my knees this way. Best thing ever and I would go through it again to get to this place with the Lord. He abides in me and I in Him. I cannot remember all the scriptures but boy do I understand God is Sovereign.i Love Him with all of my heart and I know you do to. That's why we are here. To learn,to love. I love all of you and George my friend no need to apologize, it is all Gods work, sometimes I think we forget All is God.Porter, thank you for your post, I really felt
Your concern for your kids, I feel that with my grandchildren. They are so young.As parents and grandparents we do fear for them , specially knowing what we know about this world.
George if I was there I would put you in a headlock and give you a noogie, that's a term of endearment where I come from.
I do have a question though, what did Ray mean when he said "we are all Peter"
Great is Our God, the Lord Jesus, our big brother.   Love ❤️Pamela

[Dennis Vogel]

Dennis -

Thank you for sharing this audio:

Ray uses the word 'punish' in this video: https://youtu.be/o5YCfZQ7XfU

And Ray said "Getting Saved is the Hardest Thing You Will Ever Do in Your Life"

I listened to it again; and Ray clarifies the True meaning of 'Grace', and 'Faith' - and indeed expounds on what 'Grace' actually does in us (in our hearts) - and that although it is all of God, we must 'walk in the steps He prepared for us' in order for 'His Grace' and 'His Faith' to 'Work in us', as He is 'Creating mankind In His (Spiritual) Image'.

Warmest Regards.

George

Whatever it takes to change our hearts.

Heb 12:5-8 
And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastardss, and not sons.

Strongs "Chastening"

G3811

παιδεύω
paideuō
pahee-dyoo'-o
From G3816; to train up a child, that is, educate, or (by implication) discipline (by punishment): - chasten (-ise), instruct, learn, teach.

[indianabob]

Hi Porter,

The initial fear we feel as we first sense our calling by God is one of punishment or of fear of the unknown. As we grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord that emotion turns to one similar to the "fear" I have for displeasing my wife.
I fear displeasing my wife because I need her love and acceptance in my daily life in order for me to feel complete and a whole man. I know that we are different, she's a woman and man will not easily understand women in this life, but during our time together we have become "friends" and losing that relationship would be painful for both of us.
So then the REAL point is that with the indwelling of God's spirit, Jesus and I have become friends and I am no longer a servant, but a true friend. No one wants to lose the relationship they have with dear friends and that natural "fear" of loss is appropriate in our daily journey of fulfilling God's purpose.

John 15:15

15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

It's all good George. Sometimes Im not very clear or even very sure about what Im trying to say. Just as an fyi, I don't fear God like the way I used to before learning the truth. The subject of fearing God is a tough one for me personally. I read in the bible to fear Him, and I read others say not to fear Him. I guess the only reason to fear Him at this point is if we sin willingly?



Heb 10:26  For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27  But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.


That fiery indignation stuff sounds scary lol. 


Forgive me Pamela if I went off topic a bit, so I'll just shut up now.

[Porter]

Thanks all for being patient and taking time to explain things, it's very much appreciated. Thanks Bob for that analogy, it really put it into perspective for me.

[cheekie3]

Dennis -

Thank you for sharing this:

Dennis -

Thank you for sharing this audio:

Ray uses the word 'punish' in this video: https://youtu.be/o5YCfZQ7XfU

And Ray said "Getting Saved is the Hardest Thing You Will Ever Do in Your Life"

I listened to it again; and Ray clarifies the True meaning of 'Grace', and 'Faith' - and indeed expounds on what 'Grace' actually does in us (in our hearts) - and that although it is all of God, we must 'walk in the steps He prepared for us' in order for 'His Grace' and 'His Faith' to 'Work in us', as He is 'Creating mankind In His (Spiritual) Image'.

Warmest Regards.

George

Whatever it takes to change our hearts.

Heb 12:5-8 
And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastardss, and not sons.

Strongs "Chastening"

G3811

παιδεύω
paideuō
pahee-dyoo'-o
From G3816; to train up a child, that is, educate, or (by implication) discipline (by punishment): - chasten (-ise), instruct, learn, teach.

Perhaps, His Chastening of us all, 'is The "Heart" of the Matter':

Warmest Regards.

George