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Author Topic: Christmas  (Read 3482 times)

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Doug

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Christmas
« on: December 16, 2016, 04:33:42 PM »

I am in sales and get customer's wishing me a Merry Christmas. Usually I just say something to the effect that hope they enjoy their holiday's. Just not sure what is an appropriate response, any suggestions would be appreciated.

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Porter

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2016, 06:33:48 PM »

How bout good old "bah humbug"?  ;D  Just kidding, what works for me may not work for you, but being the Scrooge that I'am I probably wouldn't be working in sales like you. Sorry if I wasn't any help. Good question otherwise!
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2016, 03:03:25 AM »

Just tell them Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Jesus' Spirit has set us free.  No rules.
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indianabob

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2016, 04:02:17 AM »

Hi John and Doug,
Reasonable guide to follow during the Christ-mass season.

Here also is a little advice from apostle Paul regarding how he dealt with differing situations.

Co 9:19  For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
1Co 9:20  And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21  To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
1Co 9:22  To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1Co 9:23  And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
= =
Our Lord knows our heart and a simple kindness to another person who is not being called at this time is not offensive to God.
Everyone will appreciate your kind intentions and few if any will offer to exchange gifts with you. (smile)

Indiana Bob



Just tell them Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Jesus' Spirit has set us free.  No rules.
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2016, 10:35:48 AM »

Just tell them Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Jesus' Spirit has set us free.  No rules.

Agree - Christman is what you make of it. I do not place any spiritual significantes on Christmas.

If this is your attitude then making anything else out of Christmas is superstitious, IMO.
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2016, 12:41:16 PM »

In my house, we celebrate christmas. Mostly because my wife is and was adament that our family not do away with a tradition that she enjoyed so much throughout childhood. I told ky wife that if not for her, christmas would be just another day to me. I told her that we would not indoctrinate our daughter with the religious lies sirrounding it. So my daughter who is six makes no association in her mind between Jesus and christmas or santa. I tell my daughter christmas is just a time to celebrate family and exchange gufts, but that truly we should always be thankful and celebrate family eveeyday, not just on christmas.

So balancing my duties as father and spiritual leader of our household as well as husband. Its not easy, Lord only knows I try.

I use happy holidays to people i dont know and if someone wishes me a merry christmas I simply say it back.

God bless,
Allex
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Dave in Tenn

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2016, 10:23:12 PM »

"Thanks.  You too."
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Doug

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2016, 10:35:50 PM »

Well it seems I have tied myself in knots for decades over this for nothing. I would even feel bad when someone would say have a merry christmas and I respond you too.

I appreciate everyone's reply. Not sure I will every get the words out merry christmas but will not beat myself up over what ever comes out.

John, you surprised me, I thought your reply would have been more like Porter's.

Again thanks to all this has been a big help.
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Extol

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2016, 10:41:00 PM »

You've received some excellent replies, Doug, and I can't advise you any better than the others have already done.

I will say, though, that I actually like some things about Christmas, and I think a lot of people who point out the "pagan origins" of Christmas are just being holier-than-thou. I don't feel I am compromising my beliefs or "going back to Babylon" by listening to Christmas music. I even went to a Lutheran high school Christmas concert last week and had a swell time. If the heavenly host can say “Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace, goodwill toward men! then I don't see anything wrong with songs that celebrate Jesus' birth, regardless of what time of year He was born.
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2016, 11:00:44 PM »

You've received some excellent replies, Doug, and I can't advise you any better than the others have already done.

I will say, though, that I actually like some things about Christmas, and I think a lot of people who point out the "pagan origins" of Christmas are just being holier-than-thou. I don't feel I am compromising my beliefs or "going back to Babylon" by listening to Christmas music. I even went to a Lutheran high school Christmas concert last week and had a swell time. If the heavenly host can say “Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace, goodwill toward men! then I don't see anything wrong with songs that celebrate Jesus' birth, regardless of what time of year He was born.

Agreed Jesse. I listen to christian music and christmas music! I enjoy them both. Its as paul said;

Romans 14
14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

No need for the holier than thou. If our Heart condemn us not, then we have confidence toward God, and we know that He hears us always, whatever we ask.

As John said, the Spirit of God has made us free. He is saving and will continue to save us. We need only be patient and wait upon Him.

God bless,
Alex
« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 11:03:15 PM by lilitalienboi16 »
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

John from Kentucky

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2016, 11:15:30 PM »

Well it seems I have tied myself in knots for decades over this for nothing. I would even feel bad when someone would say have a merry christmas and I respond you too.

I appreciate everyone's reply. Not sure I will every get the words out merry christmas but will not beat myself up over what ever comes out.

John, you surprised me, I thought your reply would have been more like Porter's.

Again thanks to all this has been a big help.

"God bless us, everyone!"  Just like Tiny Tim said.
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2016, 12:28:28 AM »

There is more "gospel" in many traditional Christmas hymns than in many other ones.  Glad tidings of great joy which shall be to ALL PEOPLE.  Can't even believe the Angels, even when they want to. 

Last time I went to a Christmas music thing, I was struck by the bland faces of the choir singing about Jesus being the Savior of the World.  I couldn't help but notice not only the emotional contradiction, but the doctrinal "prison" they find themselves in having to mentally add "...if they use their free-will to choose Him before they die..."  As a song-writer, I can tell you that doesn't scan.  As one once blind myself, I pity them.

Might I do it again?

22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

The first Christmas after I came to believe in the Salvation of all was the happiest I'd spent in many a year.  And I can assure you before God that all the "avoiding" of the accouterments I'd done in the previous years was of NO MERIT whatsoever, nor has it been since. 

But you do your thing.  I'm not making a list, checking it twice, trying to find out who's naughty or nice.     
« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 02:04:05 PM by Dave in Tenn »
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2016, 05:57:53 AM »

You've received some excellent replies, Doug, and I can't advise you any better than the others have already done.

I will say, though, that I actually like some things about Christmas, and I think a lot of people who point out the "pagan origins" of Christmas are just being holier-than-thou. I don't feel I am compromising my beliefs or "going back to Babylon" by listening to Christmas music. I even went to a Lutheran high school Christmas concert last week and had a swell time. If the heavenly host can say “Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace, goodwill toward men! then I don't see anything wrong with songs that celebrate Jesus' birth, regardless of what time of year He was born.

Yes:

Php 1:18  What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
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Arion

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2016, 09:10:46 AM »

Also in Romans;

Rom 14:5-6  One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.  He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.


Like everyone else in the world of Christendom I fully celebrated Christmas but over time I learned of the pagan roots to the church holidays so I no longer celebrate them.  And even the churches pretty much admit that Christ wasn't born on Dec 25th.  I will return a 'Merry Christmas' to those who proffer it but I no longer celebrate the season or the day.  And since at one time I fully engaged in all the Christmas hubbub in my ignorance I certainly don't judge those that are still enthralled with it.

2Co 5:16  Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Blessings.....
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Terry

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2016, 06:43:45 PM »

I don't see any of these scriptures by Paul that suggest that he would be involved  in paganism, being polite and humble of course, I believe after Paul's conversion he was different. I don't say this to sound holier-than - thou i'm probably the least holy on the forum, I remember Ray saying if the church does it its probably wrong,

Terry
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Terry

Dennis Vogel

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2016, 08:59:26 AM »

Let's not get carried away.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_days_of_the_week  "The days were named after the planets of Hellenistic astrology, in the order Sun, Moon, Mars (Ares), Mercury (Hermes), Jupiter (Zeus), Venus (Aphrodite) and Saturn (Cronos)."

When you ask someone to meet you next Saturday are you 'involved in paganism'?

Ray's wife always had a Christmas tree in their home. She did not place any religious meaning to it. She just liked the gift giving and the time of the year.

Rom 14:13  Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

Col 2:16  Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

I suspect you can find something wrong with every holiday in the US like New Year's Eve, Valentine's Day, etc.

If you look hard enough you can find paganism under every rock. But that does not mean we are practicing it.

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Extol

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2016, 11:19:09 AM »

Dear George,

Remember that e-mail Ray sent to the person who thought he was being righteous by shunning Christmas? Did I mention it was the pagans who wore shoes before the Christians?

As Dennis said, let's not get carried away. I think you're going too far by quoting scriptures like If we sin willfully and Everyone of us shall give account when talking about Christmas celebrations.

As Dave and I noted earlier, there is a lot of Biblical truth in certain Christmas songs. I don't believe I am following the traditions of men by listening--and even singing--such songs. The word Christmas isn't in the Scriptures, but the birth of Christ is, as are the celebrations of men and angels at his birth.

That link you posted is pretty ridiculous. People are not rejoicing and laughing at the death of Christ when they say Merry Christmas. The Catholic Mass is not a celebration of Christ bleeding and suffering. It is a celebration of the Lord's Supper, an outward fulfillment (however incorrect that may be) of Take and eat, this is my body. Since the Lord's Supper is the apex of a Catholic church service, the word mass is synonymous with what Protestants would call 'church service.' So the 'service' which celebrated Christ's birth would naturally be called Christ-Mass. If the holiday had been invented by Protestants in 1792, it might be called Christ-service, or Christ-day.

P.S. That passage you quoted from Jeremiah is a warning against false gods and idols--not Christmas trees. A piece of wood is carved and decorated with gold and silver to be made into a pretty household idol. See verse 5 of the passage:

They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

 Everyone knows a tree can't 'speak' or 'go' or 'do evil'. This is obviously talking about an idol, which may have the appearance of a man and cause people to think it can do those things. Notice how similar Jer. 10:3-4 is to the words of the Psalmist:

3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.


The idols of the nations are but silver and gold, The work of man's hands. They have mouths, but they do not speak; They have eyes, but they do not see; They have ears, but they do not hear, Nor is there any breath at all in their mouths.… Psalm 135:15-17

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cheekie3

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2016, 03:53:30 PM »

Dennis -

Thank you for Posting this:

Let's not get carried away.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_days_of_the_week  "The days were named after the planets of Hellenistic astrology, in the order Sun, Moon, Mars (Ares), Mercury (Hermes), Jupiter (Zeus), Venus (Aphrodite) and Saturn (Cronos)."

When you ask someone to meet you next Saturday are you 'involved in paganism'?

Ray's wife always had a Christmas tree in their home. She did not place any religious meaning to it. She just liked the gift giving and the time of the year.

Rom 14:13  Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

Col 2:16  Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

I suspect you can find something wrong with every holiday in the US like New Year's Eve, Valentine's Day, etc.

If you look hard enough you can find paganism under every rock. But that does not mean we are practicing it.

I have had Christmas trees myself.

I was trying to point out how difficult it is - not tell anyone I have an answer, or the answer, to all this.

The way I look at it, is from my heart's perspective. I know it is pagan and a tradition - yet in the heart of it all, there is Our Lord and Saviour.

I will delete my Post.

Kind Regards.

George
 
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The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

cheekie3

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2016, 03:55:41 PM »

Jesse -

You have made very valueable and valid points:

Dear George,

Remember that e-mail Ray sent to the person who thought he was being righteous by shunning Christmas? Did I mention it was the pagans who wore shoes before the Christians?

As Dennis said, let's not get carried away. I think you're going too far by quoting scriptures like If we sin willfully and Everyone of us shall give account when talking about Christmas celebrations.

As Dave and I noted earlier, there is a lot of Biblical truth in certain Christmas songs. I don't believe I am following the traditions of men by listening--and even singing--such songs. The word Christmas isn't in the Scriptures, but the birth of Christ is, as are the celebrations of men and angels at his birth.

That link you posted is pretty ridiculous. People are not rejoicing and laughing at the death of Christ when they say Merry Christmas. The Catholic Mass is not a celebration of Christ bleeding and suffering. It is a celebration of the Lord's Supper, an outward fulfillment (however incorrect that may be) of Take and eat, this is my body. Since the Lord's Supper is the apex of a Catholic church service, the word mass is synonymous with what Protestants would call 'church service.' So the 'service' which celebrated Christ's birth would naturally be called Christ-Mass. If the holiday had been invented by Protestants in 1792, it might be called Christ-service, or Christ-day.

P.S. That passage you quoted from Jeremiah is a warning against false gods and idols--not Christmas trees. A piece of wood is carved and decorated with gold and silver to be made into a pretty household idol. See verse 5 of the passage:

They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

 Everyone knows a tree can't 'speak' or 'go' or 'do evil'. This is obviously talking about an idol, which may have the appearance of a man and cause people to think it can do those things. Notice how similar Jer. 10:3-4 is to the words of the Psalmist:

3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.


The idols of the nations are but silver and gold, The work of man's hands. They have mouths, but they do not speak; They have eyes, but they do not see; They have ears, but they do not hear, Nor is there any breath at all in their mouths.… Psalm 135:15-17

The details on my Post can send out a wrong message - so I will delete it.

Kind Regards.

George

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The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

TheoLeDee

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2016, 01:17:41 AM »

It's been awhile since I've been on.

I tell them Thanks and likewise. I have no quams about celebrating Christmas. I love to sing and I love Christmas music. I love the light displays. I had to work and missed the Holidazzle in Loring Park. I enjoy the Christmas ether. I love walking and stores and hearing the jingles. I ignore the pagan origins. And most importantly I love spending time with my family and this is a holiday they all enjoy. I'll be back home on Christmas day. It's sure is blessing to be able too.
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