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Author Topic: Eating from the beginning until after the flood  (Read 1283 times)

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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2017, 10:55:02 PM »

Steven, I hope I can rest your mind by saying that Ray did NOT go into any theological tangents regarding who this "serpent" was, even though he did teach that there were people before "Adam". 

I've gone back and forth and here and there on this matter (an all related to it).  From my perspective, it is MOST important to remember (and learn if we have not) that no scripture is it's own interpretation.  I've said on this forum before that my "faith" is not in any creation "explanation".  I simply wasn't there, and I have great biblical company in that.  My "faith" is in Jesus Christ.

I can't trace my lineage back further than a handful of generations.  Few of us can do much better.  All I know is that all of "my people" were sinners, and that all but my mother are dead.  I really don't care much about "Adam" or "Eve" or Cain and Abel, or Seth...or the Serpent.  What they represented (whether in history or in inspired literature) is true, true, true.

It's is GRACE which is "super-abundant" over anything and everything that flowed from Genesis 3.  I don't care much what anybody's "opinion" is on these matters.  As long as they don't tell me that "the bible says" what the "Bible doesn't say" in support of their imaginings.   
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Dave in Tenn

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2017, 11:08:32 PM »

Largeli, I'm too busy to do a proper word study on that English translation.  But let me say this with a clear head:  YOU were created in the womb.  The proof is that YOU are YOU and not anybody else, and nobody else is YOU.  But remember that not even the heavens and the earth were created out of nothing.

YOU were also formed in the womb, as were all of us.  It was the "forming" that made you what you were in the beginning.  What you are now is from a different sort of forming, in measure.

"But now thus says the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, and He that formed you, O Israel..." (Isa. 43:1).

"...bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth; Even every one that is called by My name: for I have created him; yea, I have made him" (Isa. 43:6-7).

"Thus says the Lord God concerning the Ammonites... I will judge you [Ammonites] in the place where you were created..." (Ezek. 21:28 & 30).

"Have we not all one father? Has not one God created US [ALL mankind]" (Mal. 2:10).

Well, hasn't HE?  If I could trace my lineage back to "Adam" and "Eve", I've STILL not gone back far enough, according to Scripture.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

cheekie3

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2017, 10:47:16 AM »

All -

Is Our Saviour not the Saviour of all the world; and are we sure that there are two types of mankind - and that not all mankind came from Eve?

Does Acts 17:26 refer back to a single man, the original created man?

Acts 17:26 (NIV):
From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands.

Acts 17:26 (Complete Jewish Bible) (CJB):
ďFrom one man he made every nation living on the entire surface of the earth, and he fixed the limits of their territories and the periods when they would flourish.

Acts 17:26 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition):
And hath made of one, all mankind, to dwell upon the whole face of the earth, determining appointed times, and the limits of their habitation.

Acts 17:26 (Wycliffe Bible) (WYC):
and made of one all the kind of men [for] to inhabit on all the face of the earth, determining times ordained, and terms of the dwelling of them [and terms of habitation, or dwelling, of them],

Acts 17:26 (Philips):
From one forefather he has created every race of men to live over the face of the whole earth.

Is 2 Corinthians 5:14 referring to two types of mankind (the pre-Adamic race and those that came from Eve); and if not, does it refer only to the Adamic race - and if so, what happened to the pre-Adamic race? 

2 Corinthians 5:14 (Complete Jewish Bible) (CJB):
For the Messiahís love has hold of us, because we are convinced that one man died on behalf of all mankind (which implies that all mankind was already dead),

2 Corinthians 5:14 (GNT):
We are ruled by the love of Christ, now that we recognize that one man died for everyone, which means that they all share in his death.

2 Corinthians 5:14 (NLV):
For the love of Christ puts us into action. We are sure that Christ died for everyone. So, because of that, everyone has a part in His death.

2 Corinthians 5:14 (YLT):
for the love of the Christ doth constrain us, having judged thus: that if one for all died, then the whole died,

2 Corinthians 5:14 (MSG):
Our firm decision is to work from this focused center: One man died for everyone. That puts everyone in the same boat. He included everyone in his death so that everyone could also be included in his life, a resurrection life, a far better life than people ever lived on their own.

Does all this fit into "the sum of His Word is Truth"?

Warmest Regards.

George
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The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

largeli

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2017, 02:41:48 PM »

Biblical Dates

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AnB2iXgII5U

Ray says "chronologically" which he says may not be exact due to the skipping over of generations; Adam was created about 4000 BC. That's just over 6000 years ago.

The Earth is Very Old

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2yt1MY_pJd8

Ray says that from an evolutionary standpoint mankind has been here for 50,000 to 100,000 years.

I personally do not see monsters arise from thinking about these things, even so, would I be wrong to believe that Ray wasn't afraid of whatever monsters may arise from musing these things? Of what value would my faith be if I hadn't stared a few monsters in the face?

If we're to be child like in our faith does that mean just accepting what we've been taught by others without constantly questioning and testing it all? When I think of a child I think of how children ask lots of questions and explore all possibilities. The "why?", "how come?", "what about?", "what if?" Sometimes seems to have no end when teaching a child. Eventually it gets annoying or perhaps even threatening to the adults own beliefs and the adults sooner or later teach the children to stop questioning and just conform or believe. This is especially evident in religion.. probably more so than anywhere else.

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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2017, 03:35:07 PM »

Cheekie, none of the translations you posted contain the word "blood" that is in the original Greek.  Here, the KJV is closer.  Along with two "literal" versions.

Act 17:26  AndG5037 hath madeG4160 ofG1537 oneG1520 bloodG129 allG3956 nationsG1484 of menG444 for to dwellG2730 onG1909 allG3956 theG3588 faceG4383 of theG3588 earth,G1093 and hath determinedG3724 the timesG2540 before appointed,G4384 andG2532 theG3588 boundsG3734 of theirG848 habitation;G2733

YLT Act 17:26  He made also of one blood every nation of men, to dwell upon all the face of the earth--having ordained times before appointed, and the bounds of their dwellings--

LITV Act 17:26  And He made every nation of men of one blood, to live on all the face of the earth, ordaining fore-appointed seasons and boundaries of their dwelling,

I certainly don't think there are two "types" of men in the "racial" sense.  Before there was even the existence of a distinction between Jews and the rest of humanity, the "sons of God" married the "daughters of man".  And even after there were Jews, the lineage that produced the Messiah contained Gentiles, didn't it?  Where is this alleged "pure and separate race" in all that?

As far as I'm concerned, nowhere.  Act 17:25, 26  "...seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
   
Besides, that verse doesn't say what your provided translations say.  That he has "Made" of one blood all nations of men is not the same as saying "...From one man he made all the nations..."  The latter is a theological assumption.  I have no comment on whether or not it is "accurate".  I just want to point out that it is not here in that translation scriptural.

   


 



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StevenL

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2017, 09:21:43 PM »

Hi Dave. No need to feel responsible for resting my mind. It's not unrested.  :D  I've also been back and forth, and forth and back on this and just about every other conceivable topic as well. I can 'may be', 'possibly', 'could have been', with the best of them. Any time somebody says ... "it could be that...blah blah...", I say, "...well then it could NOT be that...blah blah". Well, this "...could mean that...blah blah...", hmm it "...could NOT mean...blah blah". Then some just make bold The-Way-It-Is statements about things they can't possibly Know, since they weren't there either, and then challenge YOU to prove otherwise. It's just Flesh. Entertaining but useless for edification of the called out.

None of that can shake my faith in the Savior though.

I've long known that the 'garden' story was waaayyy more than that shown in the simple words taken at face value. Ezekiel tells of trees in the garden that were nations.
Eze 31:3  Lo, Asshur, a cedar in Lebanon, Fair in branch, and shading bough, and high in stature, And between thickets has its foliage been."
Eze 31:8  Cedars have not hid him in the garden of Elohim, Firs have not been like unto his boughs, And chesnut-trees have not been as his branches, No tree in the garden of Elohim has been like unto him in his beauty Eze 31:9  Fair I have made him in the multitude of his thin shoots, And envy him do all trees of Eden that [are] in the garden of Elohim."
Eze 31:16  From the sound of his fall I have caused nations to shake, In My causing him to go down to sheol, With those going down to the pit, And comforted in the earth--the lower part, are all trees of Eden, The choice and the good of Lebanon, All drinking waters."

Woah! 'Comfort' in hell / sheol. There's a twist. History? Allegory? Both? Could be! Could NOT be! 

I have to restrain myself from entering into the fray in these kinds of discussions. A good melee is right up my alley and I have 432 billion arguments cued up and ready for battle. But I have seen people get injured in these kinds of discussions, so I try to stay out of them as best I can... but dang it, here I am. Sorry. My bad. It takes a crucifixion to make somebody like me be quiet.

Anyway, I'm fine. If I get too wacky, the Shepherd will bonk me with His staff and put me back in the fold.

 :o   

 
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cheekie3

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2017, 08:00:57 AM »

Dave -

Thank you for providing this valuable information about the blood:

Cheekie, none of the translations you posted contain the word "blood" that is in the original Greek.  Here, the KJV is closer.  Along with two "literal" versions.

Act 17:26  AndG5037 hath madeG4160 ofG1537 oneG1520 bloodG129 allG3956 nationsG1484 of menG444 for to dwellG2730 onG1909 allG3956 theG3588 faceG4383 of theG3588 earth,G1093 and hath determinedG3724 the timesG2540 before appointed,G4384 andG2532 theG3588 boundsG3734 of theirG848 habitation;G2733

YLT Act 17:26  He made also of one blood every nation of men, to dwell upon all the face of the earth--having ordained times before appointed, and the bounds of their dwellings--

LITV Act 17:26  And He made every nation of men of one blood, to live on all the face of the earth, ordaining fore-appointed seasons and boundaries of their dwelling,

I certainly don't think there are two "types" of men in the "racial" sense.  Before there was even the existence of a distinction between Jews and the rest of humanity, the "sons of God" married the "daughters of man".  And even after there were Jews, the lineage that produced the Messiah contained Gentiles, didn't it?  Where is this alleged "pure and separate race" in all that?

As far as I'm concerned, nowhere.  Act 17:25, 26  "...seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
   
Besides, that verse doesn't say what your provided translations say.  That he has "Made" of one blood all nations of men is not the same as saying "...From one man he made all the nations..."  The latter is a theological assumption.  I have no comment on whether or not it is "accurate".  I just want to point out that it is not here in that translation scriptural.

 

Does it matter significantly whether the original word is blood or man? Do both, blood and man, not refer to mankind?

Warmest Regards.

George
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The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

Dave in Tenn

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2017, 02:26:18 PM »

I'd have to be a theologian to know if the failure to include a translation of a word in the original was a significant matter. 

Not even the CLV (with the "L" standing for "literal") translates αἷμα aima blood. 

CLV Act 17:26  Besides, He makes out of one every nation of mankind, to be dwelling on all the surface of the earth...

At least they didn't insert "man" even if they left out "blood".   Kinda makes me wonder why not?  To make it simpler to understand?  To my mind, it doesn't if the meaning is "the same".  I even looked in the list of "spurious" passages to see if that one was there.  It isn't, unless I messed up and overlooked it. 

Maybe there's a good reason.  I just don't know what it is.

   
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cheekie3

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2017, 02:42:52 PM »

Dave -

Thank you for checking this out further; I appreciate it:

I'd have to be a theologian to know if the failure to include a translation of a word in the original was a significant matter. 

Not even the CLV (with the "L" standing for "literal") translates αἷμα aima blood. 

CLV Act 17:26  Besides, He makes out of one every nation of mankind, to be dwelling on all the surface of the earth...

At least they didn't insert "man" even if they left out "blood".   Kinda makes me wonder why not?  To make it simpler to understand?  To my mind, it doesn't if the meaning is "the same".  I even looked in the list of "spurious" passages to see if that one was there.  It isn't, unless I messed up and overlooked it. 

Maybe there's a good reason.  I just don't know what it is.

 

Warmest Regards.

George
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The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

Musterseed

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2017, 06:36:32 PM »

1 Corth 15:45.  And so it is written. the FIRST man Adam was made a living soul.

works for me 😀
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2017, 10:21:43 PM »

The context is not about who was the first man. It's about "First comes the physical and then comes the spiritual."

1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Read the rest of the verse and what comes after it.

From Ray's Twelve Truths article: https://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm

TRUTH NUMBER 1

"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the Last Adam [Jesus Christ] was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is NATURAL; and afterward that which is SPIRITUAL" (I Cor. 15:45-46).

"It is sown [first] a NATURAL BODY [a physical body which dies] ; it is raised [afterward] a SPIRITUAL BODY [which is made immortal and never dies] ..." (I Cor. 15:44).

"Who shall change our [first] VILE BODY, that it may be fashioned like unto His [afterward] GLORIOUS BODY..." (Phil. 3:21).

"If I have told you EARTHLY things [first] , and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of HEAVENLY [spiritual] things [afterward] ?" (John 3:12).


The sequence of God's plan of salvation for mankind is most important-First is the physical and then comes the spiritual.

We know Jesus is a "man" and someday we will be like Jesus the "man."

In that sense Adam is the "first man."

There is "The first man Adam" and "the Last Adam [Jesus Christ]." Jesus and Adam are not one and the same but Jesus is described as "Adam."

The word "Adam" describes both Adam and Jesus in that verse. It does not say Adam was the first human on earth. It describes Adam as the first man who will become like Jesus. And let's not forget Eve is described as "the mother of all living." They go together.

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Musterseed

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2017, 11:10:07 PM »

Thanks Dennis

Physical,,,,,,,,Spiritual
Adam,,,,,,,,,,,Jesus
OT,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,NT
Old man,,,,,,,New Creature, etc

I'm getting there little by little, it's so hard.

God Bless.          Pamela
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2017, 09:30:56 AM »

It is hard Pamela. And it's hard by design.

The bible is full of symbols and metaphors. As Ray says: "The bible is one big parable."

Isa 28:9  Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
 
Isa 28:10  For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

BTW, Young's gets this right by capitalizing the word "He" because "he" is the LORD Jehovah.

Dennis
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 09:36:37 AM by Dennis Vogel »
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Joel

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2017, 01:43:29 PM »

I agree with you Dennis, that God indeed does have a plan, and that everything in that plan will be done to the letter.
The way I see, it all through the scriptures He highlights some people that have been bad examples in FAITH and best of all God shines a light on those that have been people of much FAITH.
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, OUR LORD AND SAVIOR being at the top of the list.

Galatians 3:7-Know ye therefore that they which are of FAITH, the same are the children of Abraham.

Was Abraham the first person (man) to have FAITH? NO, because the scriptures tell us that Abel, Enoch, and Noah also were men of faith. (Hebrews 11)
God in his great wisdom chose to make the promise to Abram, and Abraham believed God and that started the great chain of events that lead up to THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD being made flesh and dwelling with man.
Romans 10:17-So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Joel
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2017, 06:10:07 PM »

Yes Joel, and may I add ...

Eph 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Eph 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
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Joel

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2017, 07:03:55 PM »

Amen Dennis!
Thanks be to God for grace, mercy, truth, and LOVE.

Joel
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 09:20:27 PM by Joel »
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indianabob

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2017, 12:53:29 PM »

Yes Joel, and may I add ...

Eph 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Eph 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

So we have been taught and do believe, that our faith comes only as a gift from God who calls us individually and gives us to Christ to teach and protect. Yet some teach that anyone may seek after God and find God by their own efforts. So how do we explain Titus 2:11 which reads: "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men"

Indiana bob
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cheekie3

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2017, 01:33:49 PM »

Bob -

Regarding Titus 2:11:

Yes Joel, and may I add ...

Eph 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Eph 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

So we have been taught and do believe, that our faith comes only as a gift from God who calls us individually and gives us to Christ to teach and protect. Yet some teach that anyone may seek after God and find God by their own efforts. So how do we explain Titus 2:11 which reads: "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men"

Indiana bob

Here are other translations:

KJ21 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
ASV For the grace of God hath appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
AMP For the [remarkable, undeserved] grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.
AMPC For the grace of God (His unmerited favor and blessing) has come forward (appeared) for the deliverance from sin and the eternal salvation for all mankind.
BRG For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
CSB For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,
CEB The grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people.
CJB For Godís grace, which brings deliverance, has appeared to all people.
CEV God has shown us how kind he is by coming to save all people.
DARBY For the grace of God which carries with it salvation for all men has appeared,
DLNT For the grace of God appeared bringing-salvation for all people,
DRA For the grace of God our Saviour hath appeared to all men;
ERV That is the way we should live, because Godís grace has come. That grace can save everyone.
ESV For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,
ESVUK For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,
EXB ∑That is the way we should live, because [L For] Godís grace that can save everyone has ∑come [appeared; been revealed].
GNV For that grace of God, that bringeth salvation unto all men, hath appeared,
GW After all, Godís saving kindness has appeared for the benefit of all people.
GNT For God has revealed his grace for the salvation of all people.
HCSB For the grace of God has appeared with salvation for all people,
ICB That is the way we should live, because Godís grace has come. That grace can save every person.
ISV For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people.
PHILLIPS For the grace of God, which can save every man, has now become known, and it teaches us to have no more to do with godlessness or the desires of this world but to live, here and now, responsible, honourable and God-fearing lives. And while we live this life we hope and wait for the glorious denouement of the Great God and of Jesus Christ our saviour. For he gave himself for us all, that he might rescue us from all our evil ways and make for himself a people of his own, clean and pure, with our hearts set upon living a life that is good.
JUB ∂ For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
KJV For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
AKJV For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
LEB For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,
TLB For the free gift of eternal salvation is now being offered to everyone;
MSG Godís readiness to give and forgive is now public. Salvationís available for everyone! Weíre being shown how to turn our backs on a godless, indulgent life, and how to take on a God-filled, God-honoring life. This new life is starting right now, and is whetting our appetites for the glorious day when our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, appears. He offered himself as a sacrifice to free us from a dark, rebellious life into this good, pure life, making us a people he can be proud of, energetic in goodness.
MEV For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
MOUNCE For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,
NOG After all, Godís saving kindness has appeared for the benefit of all people.
NABRE For the grace of God has appeared, saving all
NASB For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
NCV That is the way we should live, because Godís grace that can save everyone has come.
NET For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people.
NIRV Godís grace has now appeared. By his grace, God offers to save all people.
NIV For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.
NIVUK For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.
NKJV For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
NLV Godís free gift of being saved is being given to everyone.
NLT For the grace of God has been revealed, bringing salvation to all people.
NRSV For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all,
NRSVA For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all,
NRSVACE For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all,
NRSVCE For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all,
NTE Godís saving grace, you see, appeared for all people.
OJB For the Chen víChesed of Hashem has appeared, bringing Yeshuíat Eloheynu to kol Bnei Adam,
RSV For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all men,
RSVCE For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all men,
TLV For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
VOICE We have cause to celebrate because the grace of God has appeared, offering the gift of salvation to all people.
WEB For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
WE God's loving kindness has come. It is through that blessing that all men are saved.
WYC For the grace of God, our Saviour, hath appeared to all men,
YLT For the saving grace of God was manifested to all men,

Does it appear that all will be saved in this age of Grace; or each in the time of His own choosing?

Warmest Regards.

George
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The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

Dave in Tenn

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2017, 02:46:35 PM »

John 1:17  ...grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 

Grace is not just a 'thing' or a theological concept.  He is the embodiment of grace.  He IS grace, in his coming.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

indianabob

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2017, 02:53:25 PM »

Yes George, well said and we who are called do understand.-
However what about those who have not yet heard or who died in ignorance e.g. as children?
How to illustrate in secular language to unbelievers? Not possible is it?
So when they read that passage of scripture they think it is all of them to seek God.
Indiana bob

The Word Brings Salvation
Ro 10:13 ...for, ďEveryone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.Ē 14 How then can they call on the One they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the One of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone to preach? 15 And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: ďHow beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!Ē
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