> Off Topic Discussions
Ambition
cheekie3:
largeli -
Regarding your concerns about forgiveness:
--- Quote from: largeli on September 12, 2017, 05:28:53 PM ---
--- Quote from: indianabob on September 07, 2017, 02:15:03 PM ---
--- Quote from: largeli on September 05, 2017, 12:00:26 PM ---I want a clear conscience.
--- End quote ---
Friend Largeli,
In my personal experience, the best way one may have a clear conscience is to request forgiveness each day. So if one retires for the evening after praying for forgiveness in a sincere manner and knowing in faith that forgiveness has been granted, then your night's rest is clear of all sin...until the next day when you wake to another day of challenges and temptations.
It is a continuing, never ending in this age process, until God finishes His work in us and we are granted "life" of the age to come and immortality and see the Lord Jesus as he is, because we will then be like him.
Indiana Bob
--- End quote ---
I've thought about this. I just don't know if scripture supports the idea that I can be forgiven just by requesting forgiveness.. even with a sincere heart.
The 'church' definitely believes and teaches that we can have forgiveness for everything.. past, present, and future sins are all forgiven once we decide to believe in Jesus and accept His free gift of forgiveness. I was brought up to believe this in the church. But Christ Himself said that if you don't forgive others than God will not forgive you. The church never taught that. The church taught that all you do is ask and then you get.
In my own situation, I can ask for forgiveness every night and with a sincere heart too.. but if I continue to shrink back when I am called forth by my conscience, than that to me is proof that there's no repentance. Repentance in this case being that I change course or turn back or stop continuing to shrink back.
Can there be forgiveness without repentance?
--- End quote ---
Perhaps, these verses from the Phillips translation may assist your understanding; in that our sins / transgressions have all been nailed to His Cross, and if we forgive all others all, He too will forgive us all:
Colossians 2:11-15 (Phillips):
In Christ, you were circumcised, not by any physical act, but by being set free from the sins of the flesh by virtue of Christ’s circumcision. You, so to speak, shared in that, just as in baptism you shared in his death, and in him are sharing the miracle of rising again to new life—and all this because you have faith in the tremendous power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. You, who were spiritually dead because of your sins and your uncircumcision (i.e. the fact that you were outside the Law), God has now made to share in the very life of Christ! He has forgiven you all your sins: Christ has utterly wiped out the damning evidence of broken laws and commandments which always hung over our heads, and has completely annulled it by nailing it over his own head on the cross. And then having drawn the sting of all the powers ranged against us, he exposed them, shattered, empty and defeated, in his final glorious triumphant act!
1 John 1:5-10 (Phillips):
Here, then, is the message which we heard from him, and now proclaim to you: GOD IS LIGHT and no shadow of darkness can exist in him. Consequently, if we were to say that we enjoyed fellowship with him and still went on living in darkness, we should be both telling and living a lie. But if we really are living in the same light in which he eternally exists, then we have true fellowship with each other, and the blood which his Son shed for us keeps us clean from all sin. If we refuse to admit that we are sinners, then we live in a world of illusion and truth becomes a stranger to us. But if we freely admit that we have sinned, we find God utterly reliable and straightforward—he forgives our sins and makes us thoroughly clean from all that is evil. For if we take up the attitude “we have not sinned”, we flatly deny God’s diagnosis of our condition and cut ourselves off from what he has to say to us.
1 John 2:12-14 (Phillips):
I write this letter to you all, as my dear children, because your sins are forgiven for his name’s sake. I write to you who are now fathers, because you have known him who has always existed. And to you vigorous young men I am writing because you have been strong in defeating the evil one. Yes, I have written these lines to you all, dear children, because you know the Father; to you fathers because of your experience of the one who has always existed, and to you young men because you have all the vigour of youth, because you have a hold on God’s truth and because you have defeated the evil one.
Warmest Regards.
George
lareli:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on September 13, 2017, 02:19:29 AM ---
Just to add, to the extent and at the same time we forgive men their slips, lapses, mistakes God is forgiving us ours likewise. Does that sound familiar in your own life, regardless of any "theological" understanding you may have? Or are you going through life like a prosecutor/over-zealous cop/pharisee or scribe?
--- End quote ---
No you're right, I don't think I have much of a problem forgiving others. God may have said to me once that if I don't forgive others than He will show me all the times in my life where I have hurt others. He's shown me a couple of times and that serves as a reminder to me to forgive others.
I only used the words of Christ when He said "if you don't forgive others... " to show that what the church teaches about forgiveness is wrong. And I was making a comparison between what I learned in the church and what Bob said in his post about asking for forgiveness in order to obtain a clean conscience. Not saying Bob is wrong, just thinking about where repentance comes in when dealing with a "to him who knows what he should do and doesn't do it, it is sin." sin.
indianabob:
Largeli,
I think the following may help, but it depends upon how we each understand it.
Remember this is addressed to gentiles with no prior knowledge of the true God.
Please see the whole chapter and focus on the underlined portions. Rom 8:26-27
They convict me that what I cannot do of my own desire or purpose, the spirit of God IT will do for me, willingly and without me fully understanding what I need to pray or need to change in my life. So let go and let God.
It is already in the plan and shall be accomplished, we have only to be patient with God and with ourselves.
Bob
= = =
Life in the Spirit
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Heirs with Christ
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Future Glory
Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Rom 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
God's Everlasting Love
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John from Kentucky:
Does anyone read the Scriptures Ray quoted in his talk on repentance? The following come in this order.
1) Forgiveness
2) Repentance
3) Cleansing
Jesus was the great Passover sacrifice. His sacrifice resulted in the forgiveness of all, which is why all will be saved.
Repentance comes later and God causes all to eventually repent. There is no free will. God decides when someone repents. Read what happened to Paul on the road to Damascus. Paul repented in seconds when compelled by God. We are not in control.
The Spirit of God will lead you to understanding if you respect God's Word and tremble at His Word. Be humble and study what Ray wrote on repentance and do not follow your own opinions.
cheekie3:
largeli -
From Young's Literal Translation of The Holy Scriptures:
Psalm 130:4
But with Thee [is] forgiveness, that Thou mayest be feared.
Daniel 9:9
`To the Lord our God [are] the mercies and the forgivenesses, for we have rebelled against Him,
Acts 5:31
this one God, a Prince and a Saviour, hath exalted with His right hand, to give reformation to Israel, and forgiveness of sins;
Acts 13:38
`Let it therefore be known to you, men, brethren, that through this one to you is the forgiveness of sins declared,
Acts 26:18
to open their eyes, to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the authority of the Adversary unto God, for their receiving forgiveness of sins, and a lot among those having been sanctified, by faith that [is] toward me.
Colossians 1:14
in whom we have the redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of the sins,
Hebrews 9:22
and with blood almost all things are purified according to the law, and apart from blood-shedding forgiveness doth not come.
Hebrews 10:18
and where forgiveness of these [is], there is no more offering for sin.
Warmest Regards.
George
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version