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John 8:12-58 - How Jesus answered His accusers
octoberose:
As long as I've been in this Forum ( I think I'm at 8 years to the day) the question of who Jesus Christ truly is has been a hallmark of Faith. How many times have I read if you don't understand that Jesus died, was dead and buried not in heaven or hanging out with Noah, but Dead- that his body did not die for us but He died for us- then you really don't know who you claim to worship? I'm not sure I understand why the debate . There are many times in scripture where the Word condescends to us because we just don't get it and He cannot yet explain it to us. For instance, God never changes His mind but there are scriptures that lead us to believe that. This is what I know. Jesus asked Peter who He was and Peter answered . We all have to answer that question and it is important for us to get this right.
Matthew 13- He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
As for me, there is one God and one mediator between God and man, the man Jesus Christ. Jesus is the Son and he represents his Father perfectly.
santgem:
--- Quote from: Joel on October 17, 2017, 10:50:42 PM ---John 1:1-5 makes it pretty clear to me.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning WITH God. All things were made by HIM; and without HIM was not any thing made that was made.
In HIM was life; and the life was the light of men.
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
The way I see it, THE SPIRIT, and THE WORD are God, the ONE GOD, THE FATHER, and THE SON.
Joel
--- End quote ---
Before and After
santgem:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on October 18, 2017, 12:51:55 AM ---Santgem, it doesn't trouble me, with this understanding, that people say "The Son was created, and/or formed". Can you see why not?
--- End quote ---
Yes i can see that, It is your point of view.
Scriptures says that "In the beginning was the WORD". Is the WORD created? I did not read or didn't know that the WORD was created, Scriptures says that "WORD was with GOD".
The Word was made flesh, and who made Word flesh? It is God.
Before it is only the SPIRIT and the WORD, and when the Word was made flesh the SPIRIT became the Father and the Word became Son.
The WORD who became the SON in old said that, He is the only God (no God besides Him), the only Savior, the only Creature.
I must admit that I cannot find a word to replace the word “create” when it comes to Jesus who is the only God when we are speaking of old and who is the “Man Jesus”. I believe the word “create” is a wrong choice of word pertaining to Man Jesus.
As I presume you use the word create because Jesus was made lower than the angel and He is not in his original state.
Dennis Vogel:
I don't see any of this making God and His Father one-and-the-same being. And I still do not see how Jesus died if they are the same.
This occurred to me this morning:
Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Ray said in: https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php?topic=4472.0
So you’ve got, Jehovah said to my Adon, in the NT that becomes, God said to My Son Jesus. Because now we have who fulfilled this. I mean David did put his foot on a lot of his enemies, but not all. When he died he still had enemies. That’s why he told his son to kill them and make it bloody.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
And after also talking about Mat 22:44, Ray said in: https://bible-truths.com/audio/notes.htm
Jesus is both SON AND LORD.
And so Jehovah/Yahweh prophesied of HIS OWN COMING IN THE FLESH to be the Son of God to have all enemies put under His feet. But if Jehovah is the Son OF God, Who IS GOD? And where do we read ANYTHING about Him? Do we know of a single word that came out of the Mouth of God the Father? How can we love Him if we don’t even KNOW Him? Who is the Father and what is He like. Show me a verse in the Bible where the Father of Jesus Christ is speaking?
Here’s another riddle and enigma:
"Jesus said unto him, You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind" (Matt. 22:37).
WHO is this LORD God?
"Now these are the commandments…which the LORD your God commanded…And you shall love the LORD your God will all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might" (Deut. 6:1 & 5).
WHO is this LORD God?
Jesus QUOTED this commandment from the Old Testament. If Jesus is Jehovah Elohim when why didn’t He say: "you shall love ME with all your heart, soul and mind? (They would have stoned Him on the spot). Is there any doubt that Jesus has reference to "His FATHER God" when He quoted this greatest of the commandments? Then what about the Old Testament command? Who was THAT "Lord God/Jehovah Elohim" that Israel was to love with all their heart?
Search for "HOW DAVID’S THRONE BECOMES CHRIST’S THRONE:" in the above article if you want to read the rest.
This is the third time this topic has been brought up even after I've asked people to leave it alone from now on in PM's.
It's okay if we cannot agree on this. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But it serves no good purpose to go over it again and again. Can we at least agree to leave it alone after this? This leaves a bad taste in the mouth of people coming to this forum for the first time.
Dennis Vogel:
The fact that the Word "became" / "was made" flesh by God proves the Word is not one-and-the-same as God the Father.
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