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That ‘ungodly’ fruit
lareli:
I can speak for myself when I say that I remember being afraid to listen to anyone’s reason for believing that God didn’t exist or that Christianity was false. I was afraid that I might be convinced that they were right and then lose my salvation.. so I understand where my friend is coming from.
But after the Lord removed that fear and put a desire for “truth” in me.. I see how obvious it is that Christian doctrine falls apart with just the smallest amount of reasoning and discernment.
lareli:
--- Quote from: indianabob on December 11, 2017, 11:33:50 AM ---
--- Quote from: largeli on December 11, 2017, 11:03:33 AM ---It’s as if people believe that the fruit of the tree is still forbidden. Afraid to use their own reasoning.
= = =
Friend Largeli
Well, aren't we supposed to use God's reasoning rather than our own to guide our lives?
Seems to me that there was an admonition against each man doing what seemed right in their own eyes?
Judges 17:6 In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.
Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Indiana Bob
--- End quote ---
Yes Bob, use Gods reasoning.. but they do not use any reasoning at all is the point.
When I say ‘their own reasoning’ I mean, independent of the churches group reasoning. Not independent of God.
Isaiah 1:18 “Come, let us reason together.”
Heb 5:14 “But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
--- End quote ---
indianabob:
Largeli,
You make some valid points.
Regarding what others may or should do with human reason, please keep in mind that without God's indwelling spirit they
cannot see what we can see. They are deceived and happy in their deception UNLESS and until God grants them His understanding.
That certainly is what happened with me, but I could not see it until the blindness was removed.
Even mother Eve was deceived when she listened to Satan, but also had a natural human desire to choose her own way.
If I understand correctly, all humans resist God until they have their blindness removed and their understanding corrected.
I used to try to tithe and to observe the Jewish holy days and draw closer to God by my works.
It took quite a while before I realized that it didn't work and even then more years before I finally separated myself from "religion".
When the blind are leading the other blind they are not intentionally trying to lead them astray, because they all are going the same way, in error.
Kindly offered, Indiana Bob
Wanda:
I don't understand how the blind can have any real love for the god they worship, even that is a lie.
indianabob:
--- Quote from: Wanda on December 13, 2017, 11:53:46 AM ---
I don't understand how the blind can have any real love for the god they worship, even that is a lie.
--- End quote ---
Wanda,
Isn't it the case that the blind worship out of fear rather than out of love?
And isn't it true that a deceived person does not realize that they are repeating a lie given to them by a person they know.
So then can we see that God can "wink" at their lying teaching because God knows and understands their ignorance.
There is mention in scripture of those who lied knowingly, but I don't think that is always the situation. Many are just repeating what they have been given by their leaders and neglected to question. In other words, "going along just to get along"
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