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[lareli]

A common question to Ray in the emails section is,

“Where should I go to church?”

Rays answer was that he knew of not one church that taught the things we learn here at bt.

My question to the forum is,

If there was a church in your town that did teach and believe what Ray taught, from the salvation of all, the sovereignty of God, exposing the lie of free will, and even all the way down to what Ray taught about tithing.. would you go/join?


I have to say I’d be hesitant.. probably a “no” for me though.

[indianabob]

Hi Largeli,

I think it is pretty hopeless.
I think we can see from the friendly exchanges on this forum that even if you started your own group of ten or more, it would not be long before there would be human difficulties over dogma and leadership and which topics to encourage or allow.
= =
Just suppose that your only official resource was a version of the Bible and someone had to expand all that Ray Smith spent his lifetime compiling in order to be able to have productive discussions on a regular normal basis. It would be a monumental task.
= =
I know that Ray's papers read like he just wrote them conversationally in a few days, but I'm quite sure that Ray spent months editing and moving paragraphs to another location in the paper so that it fit and made better sense. I don't believe it is workable.
= = =
So for now I am just preparing my self to grow in grace and knowledge as the spirit leads. I have no command to teach others!

My own view is that we have "only" been instructed to "come out" of what we were in. Is there another command to restart with another denomination that would be better and more self correcting? Where are the "two or three witnesses"??

I'm quite sure that this type of serious and sincere study and practice with the forum is about as far as we are going to get, prior to the return of the King. So for now we are pretty much alone in our deliberations; except that we have God's spirit indwelling our spirit in place of some number of humans telling us what we must do and believe.

I would appreciate input from others on this question.
Ole Indiana bob

[Ricky]

Rev.18.4 Come out of he out of her my people, Ray says that is the church to come out of. To me its come out of what the church teaches, that religious system of lies it lives upon.

[Wanda]

I'm with Bob on this, and I think you're  right to be hesitant Largeli.

It occured to me recently how similar our situation is to the Isralites, after their  deliverance from slavery in the land of Egypt.

Deut 7:7-8 “The LORD did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples; but because the LORD loves you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your fathers, the LORD has brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you from the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.”

We have been delivered from the slavery of false teachings and led into the promised land of his spiratual truth.

I personally cannot believe my heavenly father would lovingly and mercifully rescue anyone, just to send them back into bondage.

[Wanda]

Jesus sacrifice  opened the way for us to go directly to the father, even he does not stand in our way.

In that day you will ask in my name, and I do not say to you that I will ask the Father on your behalf; for the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God.” (John 16:26–27)

16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. Hebrews 4:16).

What greater gift could we hope for and what greater benefit could there be for our spiritual growth, than to go directly to our heavenly father for all our needs. There is never any confusion... never any division. For me, the hard part was getting here. The easy part is following.

[John from Kentucky]

You do not go to or attend a church.

If you have the Spirit of the Living God within you, then you are the Church.

[lareli]

The reason/s I left the church were not really doctrine related.. but authority related.

[lareli]

You do not go to or attend a church.

If you have the Spirit of the Living God within you, then you are the Church.

The church I went to used to say this. Ironically.

[Joel]

I've came out of several different Churches that preach along the lines of come out of Babylon, myself over the years. There is just as much confusion in a lot of those, as there is in the main stream denominations in my view.

Joel

[Musterseed]

Luke 17: 21.  The Kingdom of God is within you.

Matt 16:28  Assuredly I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death
                  till they see the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom.

Could someone please explain the Matt 16:28 scripture for me. Thank you,,,,,,Pamela

[John from Kentucky]

Luke 17: 21.  The Kingdom of God is within you.

Matt 16:28  Assuredly I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death
                  till they see the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom.

Could someone please explain the Matt 16:28 scripture for me. Thank you,,,,,,Pamela

On the mountain, Peter, James, and John, saw Jesus in His glory; His face as the Sun in full force, His eyes as flames of Fire, His body exuding brightness.  That is how He is described in other places in the Scriptures in His glorified state, and how He will look at His return, in His Kingdom.

[Musterseed]

Mine eyes have seen the Glory of the coming of the Lord, Glory, Glory , Hallelujah , this song just popped into my head with the description. Thankyou John

[Wanda]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I  thought Jesus was telling us that some people would still be alive at his return, hence they would not taste death until then, because we all have to die, either before or after his return.

Matt 16:28  Assuredly I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death
                  till they see the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom.

[John from Kentucky]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I  thought Jesus was telling us that some people would still be alive at his return, hence they would not taste death until then, because we all have to die, either before or after his return.

Matt 16:28  Assuredly I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death
                  till they see the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom.

It is not what we think Scriptures say, but where the Spirit of God guides our understanding.  Only a very, very small few are given understanding at this time.

The Scriptures never truly contradict.  Matt 16:28 only says some would see the Son of Man come in His glory, not that they would be there literally before they died.  See.  The three did See Him come in His glory, in a vision.  They were not really there at His literal coming, which is yet in the future.

God does not lie, nor does His Word lie or contradict.  "Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit, says the LORD of hosts."

[Wanda]

Thanks for your reply John.

[Ricky]

I don't think it has nothing to do with anyone other than the ones Standing There at that time. Where does it say future people standing there.

[Wanda]

I don't think it has nothing to do with anyone other than the ones Standing There at that time. Where does it say future people standing there.

Hi Ricky, my confusion on this was from my past indoctrination, which can run deep sometimes. Now, I just feel silly for questioning this before my own due diligence.

 

[believechrist100]

A common question to Ray in the emails section is,

“Where should I go to church?”

Rays answer was that he knew of not one church that taught the things we learn here at bt.

My question to the forum is,

If there was a church in your town that did teach and believe what Ray taught, from the salvation of all, the sovereignty of God, exposing the lie of free will, and even all the way down to what Ray taught about tithing.. would you go/join?


I have to say I’d be hesitant.. probably a “no” for me though.

"believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.” (John 4:21-24)

Essentially it's a no based practically on principle, calling a brick building a "church" is like calling your mother a washing machine. It's implausable. Also, remember this....true worship is obedience.

[lareli]

A common question to Ray in the emails section is,

“Where should I go to church?”

Rays answer was that he knew of not one church that taught the things we learn here at bt.

My question to the forum is,

If there was a church in your town that did teach and believe what Ray taught, from the salvation of all, the sovereignty of God, exposing the lie of free will, and even all the way down to what Ray taught about tithing.. would you go/join?


I have to say I’d be hesitant.. probably a “no” for me though.

"believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.” (John 4:21-24)

Essentially it's a no based practically on principle, calling a brick building a "church" is like calling your mother a washing machine. It's implausable. Also, remember this....true worship is obedience.

I agree. But when I say ‘church’ I’m not talking about a brick building, but instead a group of people who refer to themselves as a “we” and who have a “leader” or a head person. A organized hierarchy.