They overcame by.. ?

[ZekeSr]

Hello Largeli,

The book of Revelations is about the individual..... it's personal ..... it's internal..... even though it may appear to be otherwise. As such, I contend this is referring as much to one's personal internal struggle as it is to anything external. Jesus was tempted by the devil and overcame him by quoting scripture (testimony), and so must we. This verse is about overcoming Satan and the beast within through our own personal testimony to ourselves as we study and learn, not evangelizing. Also, I believe Extol hit on something when he mentioned that the word testimony, as referenced in Strong's, is rooted in martyr. Examine the two phrases wrapped around the one containing the reference to testimony: And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb (martyred)...... and they loved not their lives unto the death (until we die—we all must die once regardless of the circumstances). It's a lifelong struggle.
If I recall correctly (someone correct me if I'm wrong), Ray's position was that there were those who were meant to evangelize (under the proper conditions), but that is not what this is about. We all have our own calling.

Mike

[Dave in Tenn]

To add to Mike's post.

In the Revelation passage, those who overcome are not pictured as "testifying" to others.  Nor are they testifying (solely) about their personal faith.  They overcome by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their "testimony".

What is more important--your faith and/or the story of your faith, or the One in Whom you have faith...The One who died for you.  Is the Gospel more important or is your faith in the Gospel more important?

If you picture a courtroom (and Paul was quite literally in "court" at the rough time of his revelation/vision) YOU are not the only one being "accused".  (What he does to the least of these My brethren he has done to Me).  You and me and every other believer are not all that important in the grand scheme of things.  HE is paramount.  When we "testify" of things in this court where Satan is accusing day and night, we are testifying not about our own experience but of the work, character, and promise of God.  We are testifying the things concerning HIM.

The night my spiritual eyes were opened is important to me.  Telling that story may be of encouragement to other believers.  But I didn't die for their sins.  And since that night, day and night constantly, the Adversary (in court) continues to "accuse".  It's not enough for me to wrap myself up in the blanket of my own testimony.  What is VITAL is that the Lord Himself be and remain TRUE.  HE's the One whose Testimony frees the brethren--all of them.  The ones in the revelation testify against the accuser on behalf of the Lord and His brothers.

Here's a spiritual match:

1Ti 4:9  Faithful is the saying and worthy of all welcome
1Ti 4:10  (for for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind,
1Ti 4:11  especially of believers. These things be charging and teaching.

That's OUR testimony (the especially) in this spiritual court on behalf of the brethren being accused day and night.  If you can testify/provide witness/bring evidence to that, then you are among those who are overcoming.
     

[lareli]

Some really good thoughts Dave. Thanks guys.

[Nett]

AMEN Dave in Tenn, AMEN!!!



To add to Mike's post.

In the Revelation passage, those who overcome are not pictured as "testifying" to others.  Nor are they testifying (solely) about their personal faith.  They overcome by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their "testimony".

What is more important--your faith and/or the story of your faith, or the One in Whom you have faith...The One who died for you.  Is the Gospel more important or is your faith in the Gospel more important?

If you picture a courtroom (and Paul was quite literally in "court" at the rough time of his revelation/vision) YOU are not the only one being "accused".  (What he does to the least of these My brethren he has done to Me).  You and me and every other believer are not all that important in the grand scheme of things.  HE is paramount.  When we "testify" of things in this court where Satan is accusing day and night, we are testifying not about our own experience but of the work, character, and promise of God.  We are testifying the things concerning HIM.

The night my spiritual eyes were opened is important to me.  Telling that story may be of encouragement to other believers.  But I didn't die for their sins.  And since that night, day and night constantly, the Adversary (in court) continues to "accuse".  It's not enough for me to wrap myself up in the blanket of my own testimony.  What is VITAL is that the Lord Himself be and remain TRUE.  HE's the One whose Testimony frees the brethren--all of them.  The ones in the revelation testify against the accuser on behalf of the Lord and His brothers.

Here's a spiritual match:

1Ti 4:9  Faithful is the saying and worthy of all welcome
1Ti 4:10  (for for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind,
1Ti 4:11  especially of believers. These things be charging and teaching.

That's OUR testimony (the especially) in this spiritual court on behalf of the brethren being accused day and night.  If you can testify/provide witness/bring evidence to that, then you are among those who are overcoming.