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Author Topic: Revelation Commentary  (Read 1583 times)

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Chris

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Revelation Commentary
« on: April 15, 2018, 11:01:51 PM »

Hey BT family.. can anyone recommend a good Revelation commentary, either online or in print? I know Mike Vinson has one on his site but Ray said it was poorly written and full of errors.

Revelation is by far the most difficult book for me to understand, so I would appreciate any help with this.

Thanks and peace to all
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Wanda

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Re: Revelation Commentary
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2018, 12:37:16 AM »

Might I suggest the Holy Spirit, it comes Highly recommended  ;)

Seriously though, since most theologians believe Revelations is literal, I'm not sure one exists.
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Chris

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Re: Revelation Commentary
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2018, 01:12:28 AM »

Might I suggest the Holy Spirit, it comes Highly recommended  ;)

Yes of course, but that same Holy Spirit also tells us: there is safety in a multitude of counselors (Proverbs 11:14)

I have learned more from Ray and the people on this message board than I could ever have learned studying by myself.
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Wanda

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Re: Revelation Commentary
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2018, 04:16:46 AM »

Chris, these may help.

The “Lake of Fire” Series
                                           
                                          Part I
 
                The Book of Revelation is a Book of Symbols

                      http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html


1. Five general scenarios
2. Three false assumptions
3. Literal or symbolic?
4. Biblical figures of speech
5. Parables are not literally true stories
6. Making the simple complicated
7. Keeping the simple, simple
8. Physical fire versus spiritual fire
9. God is this lake of fire?

How Hard Is Getting Saved
This article has some great stuff as well.

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,3849.0.html

You can’t understand this book. Scholars have poured over this for millions of hours. They cannot understand this book. This book is SPIRITUAL, these are spiritual words, these are symbols. They are all the same. It’s not as hard as we thought when God opens it up, it takes on a simplicity.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 04:29:58 AM by Wanda »
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Dennis Vogel

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Re: Revelation Commentary
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2018, 10:20:43 AM »

May not be time yet:

Dan 12:9  And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
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Wanda

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Re: Revelation Commentary
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2018, 04:41:36 PM »

May not be time yet:

Dan 12:9  And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

I don't feel wise enough to understand all these things.

10  Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

John from Kentucky

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Re: Revelation Commentary
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2018, 06:31:06 PM »

Revelation is not for the young in spirit.

Only Jesus can unlock the meanings in that Book to one of His individual Elect.

All of the symbols in that Book are explained in other Scriptures.

Line upon line, line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little.

In the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established.
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Wanda

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Re: Revelation Commentary
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2018, 04:34:57 PM »

I found this thread, where Kat expounds on Danial 12:9:

Dan 12:8  Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, "My lord, what shall be the end of these things?"
v. 9  And he said, "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
v. 10  Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.

There it says "the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end," but in Revelation it says "Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand." So we can begin to see when or what time is this speaking of.

Heb 9:26  He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

1Peter 1:20  He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you
v. 21  who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

Heb 1:2  has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

During the old covenant times it was not the time of the end, because that wasn't until Jesus brought the new covenant "in these last days" and "last times for you who through Him believe in God"... the time of the elect. For all believers down through the centuries, Christ's sacrifice is bringing the last times for those in Him... the elect are being prepared during their individual lives ever since Christ came, living and then waiting in their grave until Christ returns. Then their life will continue at their resurrection into the kingdom.

So that's why the saying in Revelation are open for all the elect in the new covenant times. And that's why it was "closed up and sealed till the time of the end" from the OT prophets and patriarchs... they could not be elect, because it started with Christ's first appearing in the flesh. Nor could they understand what had not happened yet.

The believers can understand these things now because we have the knowledge of the truth. The church believes those verses you referred to are saying that a person fate is sealed at the death... if a person was unjust or filthy, they would continue in that state forever, as would the righteous. Only a blessed few have their eyes open to these truths now.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

 https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,16649.msg150850.html#msg150850
« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 07:51:20 PM by Wanda »
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Dennis Vogel

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Re: Revelation Commentary
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2018, 08:06:56 PM »

I found this thread, where Kat expounds on Danial 12:9:

...

So that's why the saying in Revelation are open for all the elect in the new covenant times. And that's why it was "closed up and sealed till the time of the end" from the OT prophets and patriarchs... they could not be elect, because it started with Christ's first appearing in the flesh. Nor could they understand what had not happened yet.

The believers can understand these things now because we have the knowledge of the truth. The church believes those verses you referred to are saying that a person fate is sealed at the death... if a person was unjust or filthy, they would continue in that state forever, as would the righteous. Only a blessed few have their eyes open to these truths now.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

 https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,16649.msg150850.html#msg150850

I must not be a believer because I cannot say much with certainty about hidden end times facts.

But if this is known to the elect now then it must have also been known to the elect for the last 2000 years. There must have been many thousands of people with all this understanding in 2000 years.

You'd think a few of them would have written it down somewhere? The printing press was invented in the 1400's. Should be more than a few books don't you think?

And YouTube should have more than a few inspired videos? We've had the Internet for over thirty years.
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Wanda

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Re: Revelation Commentary
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2018, 01:44:17 AM »

Good points Dennis.

Thinking on all Ray was inspired to teach, he didn't feel writing a commentary on Revelations was more important than other things he wanted to cover. If it had been important to God for all these things to be revealed, he would have made it so. Just my thoughts.

Ray, I already ask you a question in another e-mail which I hope you answer.But a comment is, I,d like to see you write a thing on how and what the book of  revelation is in your view and what will happen and what it all means by your view of it. It may help alot of people see some truth for once as compared to what their being taught in churches now. Like is the symboles literal or synbolic,etc.Seals,Trumpets,bowls,beasts,number of the beast,etc.I believe you get the idea. I think you should write it! Thanks,God Bless,Jeff
    
    Dear Jeff:
    I have had some ask me to explain Revelations to them in an email. I will be covering portions of Revelations in my Lake of Fire Series. As for a verse by verse commentary, that will have to wait awhile, as I have other more important subjects to yet cover.
    God be with you,
    Ray

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,3623.msg27087.html#msg27087
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Dennis Vogel

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Re: Revelation Commentary
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2018, 05:53:55 PM »

Quote
that will have to wait awhile, as I have other more important subjects to yet cover.

Speaks for itself.
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lareli

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Re: Revelation Commentary
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2018, 10:33:09 AM »

I found this thread, where Kat expounds on Danial 12:9:

...

So that's why the saying in Revelation are open for all the elect in the new covenant times. And that's why it was "closed up and sealed till the time of the end" from the OT prophets and patriarchs... they could not be elect, because it started with Christ's first appearing in the flesh. Nor could they understand what had not happened yet.

The believers can understand these things now because we have the knowledge of the truth. The church believes those verses you referred to are saying that a person fate is sealed at the death... if a person was unjust or filthy, they would continue in that state forever, as would the righteous. Only a blessed few have their eyes open to these truths now.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

 https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,16649.msg150850.html#msg150850

I must not be a believer because I cannot say much with certainty about hidden end times facts.

But if this is known to the elect now then it must have also been known to the elect for the last 2000 years. There must have been many thousands of people with all this understanding in 2000 years.

You'd think a few of them would have written it down somewhere? The printing press was invented in the 1400's. Should be more than a few books don't you think?

And YouTube should have more than a few inspired videos? We've had the Internet for over thirty years.

But there are many books and many YouTube videos by people who believe they are the elect. How do you know if they are the elect? How do you know you are one? Every person in every denomination in every faith believes they are among the chosen.

When it comes to my faith, the bottom line for me is.. would I ever be satisfied with someone elseís interpretation anyways? I say no, lest I fall into the trap of following a man by esteeming his interpretation over the voice of the spirit within myself.
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Iím just what you made God.. ~Kid Cudi

Dennis Vogel

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Re: Revelation Commentary
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2018, 12:55:11 PM »

But there are many books and many YouTube videos by people who believe they are the elect. How do you know if they are the elect? How do you know you are one? Every person in every denomination in every faith believes they are among the chosen.

But that's the point - According to that post you should be led to the truth if you are one of the elect.

Quote
The believers can understand these things now because we have the knowledge of the truth.

"Now?" It may not be the "end times" yet.

I'm always reminded what my (now dead) mother-in-law said: "Everyone thinks they are living in the end times."
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Johnny70

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Re: Revelation Commentary
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2018, 01:15:22 PM »

Hi Dennis,
Did the apostles know - in their day that they were of the elect? It seems hard to believe that they were in doubt of their future when they even had contact with The Messiah Himself and you would think that the topic would have come up to assure them that they were OK, as part of the first resurrection. Where as for me I do not know.

As for the end times- I have been looking at this issue for some 50 years - but I think we are getting closer - that is all I can say and as far as I will go without making a total fool of my self!!!
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Revelation Commentary
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2018, 07:34:38 PM »

1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
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yello62

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Re: Revelation Commentary
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2018, 11:10:55 AM »

amen to that last post Dennis.
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Nothing, consequently, is now condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. Not according to flesh are they walking, but according to spirit, for the spirit's law of life in Christ Jesus frees you from the law of sin and death.

Johnny70

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Re: Revelation Commentary
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2018, 11:15:08 AM »

Hi Dennis,
I am not trying to debate this topic with you - so do not misunderstand as it is so easy to do when texting. And in no way do I intend any abrasiveness toward you. I just want to understand a very important salvation/resurrection concept that affects us all.
 
So in your studies Dennis what would a definition of a castaway be, so in this case the text ICor. 9:27, Paul could avoid being one at ALL COSTS?!!! Would Jesus have given him (Paul) His close and dear apostle this information. Just like when you were taught to drive a car - that going up over a curb and driving down a crowded sidewalk was a, CASTAWAY driving infraction, BIG TIME. We all know, no driver of an automobile is perfect just like Paul points out that no human is perfect in Romans ch 7-8. We all realize as well that God is in control and all human works and events are predetermined and controlled completely by Him.

But what the issue here is, can a human or could Paul determine and understand behavioral limits like being a castaway. Just like driving down a crowded sidewalk with your automobile? Was Paul privileged in His close relationship with Jesus to grasp such a principle?
John 
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Revelation Commentary
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2018, 12:51:54 PM »

I did not take it as a debate, sorry if it came across like that.

Concordant:
1Co 9:27  but I am belaboring my body and leading it into slavery, lest somehow, when heralding to others, I myself may become disqualified."

Strongs Castaway definition: G96

ἀδόκιμος
adokimos
ad-ok'-ee-mos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384; unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication worthless (literally or morally): - castaway, rejected, reprobate.

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Wanda

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Re: Revelation Commentary
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2018, 02:26:46 PM »

Hi Dennis,
Did the apostles know - in their day that they were of the elect? It seems hard to believe that they were in doubt of their future when they even had contact with The Messiah Himself and you would think that the topic would have come up to assure them that they were OK, as part of the first resurrection. Where as for me I do not know.

As for the end times- I have been looking at this issue for some 50 years - but I think we are getting closer - that is all I can say and as far as I will go without making a total fool of my self!!!

Hi Johnny,

None of us can know with certainty if we are one of God's elect, and for me that is a blessing☺

When I think of Paul, and his experience on the road to Damascus, his miraculous transformation is a testimont to how God wills all in our lives, as to what our purpose will be in his plans. When he wills something for us it will not be from our own doing, but we can see and feel him working in us as Paul surely did.  Maybe these scriptures will help.

Paul wrote this letter to the church at Philippi, while he was in prison.


Philippians 3 New International Version (NIV)

3 Further, my brothers and sisters, rejoice in the Lord! It is no trouble for me to write the same things to you again, and it is a safeguard for you. 2 Watch out for those dogs, those evildoers, those mutilators of the flesh. 3 For it is we who are the circumcision,we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh— 4 though I myself have reasons for such confidence.

If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more:5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee;6 as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.

7 But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8 What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in[a]Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. 10 I want to knowChrist—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,11 and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead.

12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

It sure looks like Paul understood because it was God's will for him.

15 All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. 16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.

Acts 20:22-24

22 “And now, compelled by the Spirit, I am going to Jerusalem, not knowing what will happen to me there. 23 I only know that in every city the Holy Spirit warns me that prison and hardships are facing me. 24 However, I consider my life worth nothing to me; my only aim is to finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me—the task of testifying to the good news of God’s grace.




« Last Edit: April 28, 2018, 04:55:44 PM by Wanda »
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Musterseed

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Re: Revelation Commentary
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2018, 06:06:53 PM »

2 Peter 1:21
For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human,
spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Being carried along, persuaded, inspired, compelled, made by the Holy Spirit
is the only way to understand the deep symbolic mysteries of God.

In Christ Pamela
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