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[Heidi]

I am reading Rays paper again regarding 12 God given truths and states:
When the Scriptures speak of Israel they speak of Jesus, and when they speak of Jesus they speak of us, for "...as Jesus is, so are we in the world" (I John 4:17).
I want to understand completely what that means and asking God to show me.
I'm hoping that someone might share something with me. Funny enough I get the part about us being like Jesus for as He is so are we in the world.  It's the part of Israel being compared to Jesus that I don't understand. Partly because Israel was so disobedient and stubborn or is it just that they are God's people?  Similarly to Jesus being God's firstfruit?
Regards Heidi

[Dave in Tenn]

Heidi, I'm no expert in these matters, so just take this as comment.  The vast majority of the times (especially in the Pentateuch) that the word Israel appears, it is in reference to the "children of Israel".  Maybe that's a bit of help concerning your specific question. 

[elkheart]

Hi Heidi
I guess the obvious answer would be that Israel is compared in types and shadows of what Jesus has been  and is doing within His elect,which would be like Israel overcoming with God as when Israel wrestled with God, as we cannot overcome without Jesus, for without Him, we can do nothing. This seams to be like what would compare at least partially how Jesus would be like Israel,spiritually.

[AwesomeSavior]

Hello Heidi:
 
Here is a comparison of two Scriptures which might shed some insight:

"When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt" (Hosea 11:1).

"And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son" (Matthew 2:15).

There may be more than one analogy in these two verses.

Dean

[Heidi]

Thank you all for taking the time to respond to my question. God bless you for that.

The two scriptures quoted are a spiritual match and we are also called out of Egypt.  For as He is, so are we in the world.  I can now see that it represents a shadow of the real thing, I.e. Jesus Christ and that we are the spiritual children of Israel.

"And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son" (Matthew 2:15)

Thank you.
Love in Christ
Heidi

[Heidi]

In truth number 4 Ray writes:

"The spiritual resurrected Jesus Christ does not represent the physical house of David, or the physical Tribe of Judah, or the physical nation of Israel. Jesus Christ is Spirit and His words are spirit. "As Jesus is, so are we" means that those who are spiritual (composed of almost exclusively Gentiles in this Church era) are the true Jews-not national Israel and Judah. National Israel and Judah are going into the Great White Throne of Judgment in the second resurrection during the period of the Lake of Fire. They will NOT be grafted into Jesus, the Tree of Life, before then. Jesus fulfilled all that is written in the Law of Moses and all the prophets-it ALL pertains to Jesus, and thus it all pertains to us ( 'upon whom the ends of the ages are come,' I Cor. 10:11)."

I understand therefore  that we are the spiritual children of Israel, which is Jesus and as He is so are we.