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Author Topic: First People  (Read 30793 times)

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ZekeSr

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First People
« on: July 04, 2018, 09:24:42 AM »

I seem to remember Ray briefly addressing the subject/premise of people being here before Adam. And I also seem to remember that he stated it concurred with Scripture.

Perhaps the most direct example, but not the only indication, is Cain being in fear for his life as he roamed the earth after killing Abel:
Gen 4:14 Behold! You have driven me out from the face of the earth today, and I shall be hidden from Your face. And I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth, and it shall be that anyone who finds me shall kill me.
Gen 4:15 And Jehovah said to him, therefore whoever kills Cain shall be avenged seven times. And Jehovah set a mark upon Cain so that anyone who found him should not kill him.

But I also know there is Scripture relating us all back to Adam and Eve. And I kind of remember Ray making that point, too.
Can anyone shed some light on the subject or reference where I can locate it on this site? I find it extremely fascinating, yet confusing.

Mike
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: First People
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2018, 10:19:04 AM »

Gen 3:20  And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

Rotherham has an interesting translaton:

(Rotherham)  So the man called the name of his wife, Eve,—in that, she, was made mother of every one living.

Mat 8:22  But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

If real science says man has been here 50k years then we should consider that to be true. The bible and true science do not disagree.

https://youtu.be/2AbrPxV1uQU


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Prune Soleiado

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Re: First People
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2018, 12:47:19 PM »

Well, I would say Adam and Eve were not the first people since Adam had undoubtedly a father and a mother, unless God lies (absolutly not!), for Adam had to leave them to marry Eve:
Genesis 2:24 «  That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh »
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Prune Soleiado

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Re: First People
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2018, 03:17:53 PM »

If you read Luke 3:23-38, you can notice that we are given a SPIRITUAL genealogy with this accuracy: ADAM IS A SON OF GOD. (Verse 38).
Matthew 1:1-16 gives us a PHYSICAL genealogy as well as in the book of Genesis: Adam is the father of Seth.
In Luke 3 :23, Jesus is NOT the physical son of Joseph « AS WAS SUPPOSED ».
So I would read Genesis 2:7 as a sort of « explanation » onto HOW Adam became a Son of God, a SPIRITUAL SON.
 Then in Luke 3, we can read all the spiritual line of descent God has begotten.
It is obvious to me, by the light of this spiritual genealogy, that Adam, and Eve, were not the first to inhabit the earth, they had relatives, neighbours etc for:
1Corinthians 15:46  « The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual »
Meaning they had to be given birth in the flesh first to be begotten a new in the same spiritual way God creates His children, us, with a new spirit, a new heart and later a new body.
I see Genesis 2:4-25 as the Judgement and Salvation of God onto Adam and Eve, since « ALL IS ONE ».
What do you think?
For the Glory Of God throught Christ. Michelle.
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indianabob

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Re: First People
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2018, 06:42:08 PM »

Well, I would say Adam and Eve were not the first people since Adam had undoubtedly a father and a mother, unless God lies (absolutly not!), for Adam had to leave them to marry Eve:
Genesis 2:24 «  That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh »

Hi Michelle,
Well wait a moment. If Adam had a human father and a human mother...then where did they come from?
Somewhere in his ancestry there had to be a first cause of human or sentient flesh to begin the process didn't there?
Bob

Also in chpt 2 verse 21 it says that God took Eve out of Adam's side. So where do you suppose her Mother and Father originated?
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Prune Soleiado

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Re: First People
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2018, 07:24:39 PM »

Hello Bob,

I’m thinking about this verse:
Genesis 1:26 « Then God said, “Let us MAKE mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

The verb « to make » here is the translation of the Hebrew ASAH ( Strong 06213). Ray taught us that this verb means to make something out of something that already exists, as opposed to BARA (Strong 01254) (Gen 1:27, Gen 2:23) which means to create something that didn’t existed before.
So when God created humanity in His image there was already the material, the basis, the foundations. Before Adam was FORMED (Yatsar, Strong 03335) or established in a spiritual way, there was already humanity on earth, but it was composed of unwise men, no close relationship to God. The fact that humanity  needs to be in the image of God means to me that men must be wise so that they can have a real and close relationship with God abd then He can model it (yatsar, Gen 2:7).

The idea is: humanity already was inhabiting earth: ASAH
Then God decides to create a new man taken from this unwise humanity by making this man all new, wiser with a new heart: BARA
And when the man is wise, with a new spirit, God starts to teach him and model him: YATSAR, so that Adam becomes a living soul which is able to cultivate the Eden, which is spiritual.

It reminds me of a post I read yesterday on this forum. It was talking about the work of the goldsmith refining silver. Here’s the link:
https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,14337.0.html

We are a soiled piece of silver, then God cleanse us with the fire of His Judgement, and at the end we piece of silver are so pure God can see His own image in us.  Big process.

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Prune Soleiado

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Re: First People
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2018, 07:44:54 PM »

About Eve: It says in Gen 2:22 that God formed Eve by taking one of Adam’s rib.
The hebrew word for « rib » is tsela‘ (Strong 06763) which signifies also the sides of a door, or the sides of a chamber( in a temple’s structure), or the sides of an arch.
Eve is not yet wise in the eyes of God, she’s not in the temple of God. And like Adam God took her out of her human foolish position to bring her to His wisdom, and we know Adam, like Our Lord Jesus with His Church, has the prerogative to render his wife pure, unblemished. God brings Eve to Adam after He has fashioned her also, she has come by the same process as Adam. She’s wise now and Adam recognizes it by saying « This now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh ».

Just my humble opinion.. Hope I’m kinda clear. I don’t mean to confuse anyone 😉

Blessed be God, Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: First People
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2018, 07:49:52 PM »

But let's not forget they both sinned
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Prune Soleiado

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Re: First People
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2018, 08:12:31 PM »

Hello Dennis,
Yes They both sinned just like we behoove to fall down from our own overproud constructed heavens, work in progress, we must learn to reject evil in our hearts.
Romans 7:13  « Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful »
We MUST go through a time where the beast takes a total control of our hearts, even though we are converted. Ray talked about the greek verb « DIE » which means « to behoove to », « to be necessary ». Jesus reminded His disciple of the necessity of those dark times before He comes back again in the end of times. This necessity is for the accomplishment of the Will of God.
So Adam and Eve sinned like we are to sin, just to learn how to reject sin.
Esaiah 7:15-16:
« He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right,
for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste. »
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John from Kentucky

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Re: First People
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2018, 10:43:43 PM »

Some of us have the understanding that the Adam and Eve story is not literal but a spiritual story chock full of deep spiritual truths.  Adam is the Hebrew word for mankind.  Eve is the mother of all living. But not all have this understanding.  God guides all.
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Wanda

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Re: First People
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2018, 11:30:13 PM »

Thank you Michelle,

The Lord has blessed you richly.

How much better to get wisdom than gold, to get insight rather than silver!

~ Proverbs 16:16

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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Prune Soleiado

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Re: First People
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2018, 06:03:16 AM »

Hello John, Hello Wanda,

Yes John, you’re right, SPIRITUAL, what a wonder!
There are sooooo many levels of readings in the Bible.
Adam signifies mankind and in the same time he signifies God’s elect people, His few.
Ahhh the riches of the Wisdom of God.

Wanda,
I thank God for all those treasures He brings us in abundance  and I pray He guides us through the Spirit of Christ, His Spirit, and reveals us His thoughts through the Light of Christ for I don’t want to rely on my own overproud thoughts.

1Chronicles 1:16: « Glory in his holy name; let the hearts of those who seek the LORD rejoice. »

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Dennis Vogel

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Re: First People
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2018, 06:49:54 AM »

Some of us have the understanding that the Adam and Eve story is not literal but a spiritual story chock full of deep spiritual truths.  Adam is the Hebrew word for mankind.  Eve is the mother of all living. But not all have this understanding.  God guides all.

Certainly John. But let's not give the impression that Adam and Eve is only a spiritual story. We have Adam's genealogy recorded in the book of Genesis. So we know they were real people.

As for "Adam and Eve story is not literal." Some of it seems to be not literal if you consider Eve is "the mother of all living" and you believe there were humans before Adam and Eve.

But I've often wondered what "the mother of all living" means? Some of her descendants will become "the elect" or spiritually enlightened? What do you think John?
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: First People
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2018, 10:17:56 AM »

Ecc 3:18  I said in my heart:It is on account of the sons of humanity That the One, Elohim, seeks to manifest them And to show them that they themselves are beasts."
Ecc 3:19  For the destiny of the sons of humanity And the destiny of the beast, It is one destiny for them; As death is for this one, so is death for that one, And one spirit is for all; There is no advantage for the human over the beast, For the whole is vanity."
Ecc 3:20  All are going to one place; All have come from the soil, and all return to the soil."
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Wanda

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Re: First People
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2018, 01:55:12 PM »

The promise of a Savior from man’s rebellious nature is something we see consistently throughout Scripture—from its origin in Genesis, all the way through to Christ’s ultimate victory in Revelation.

God promised that through the Seed (i.e., descendant) of a woman (Eve) would come one who would crush the head of Satan. This is the first promise of a Savior to come into the world to save ALL MANKIND. Genesis 3:14–15

With the woman’s seed is a hope for life that defeats death, hence the mother of all living

The seed of the woman would redeem All of humanity, and not just the elect.
Is this not Gods plan for mankind since before their creation?

1 Cor 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.

Hebrews 2:14–15

14 Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that ithrough death he might jdestroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject.

It's all so magnificent!


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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

IbTee

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Re: First People
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2018, 04:14:05 PM »

Amen.
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"You are not here to fix anything, because nothing is broken, but everything is continually changing and expanding." Abraham Hicks

Dennis Vogel

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Re: First People
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2018, 04:31:19 PM »

The promise of a Savior from man’s rebellious nature is something we see consistently throughout Scripture—from its origin in Genesis, all the way through to Christ’s ultimate victory in Revelation.

God promised that through the Seed (i.e., descendant) of a woman (Eve) would come one who would crush the head of Satan. This is the first promise of a Savior to come into the world to save ALL MANKIND. Genesis 3:14–15

With the woman’s seed is a hope for life that defeats death, hence the mother of all living

The seed of the woman would redeem All of humanity, and not just the elect.
Is this not Gods plan for mankind since before their creation?

1 Cor 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.

Hebrews 2:14–15

14 Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that ithrough death he might jdestroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject.

It's all so magnificent!

I see what you are saying Wanda but think there could be more to it.

I suspect it has something to do with "let the dead bury their dead" and the living dead. But I'm just speculating.
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Wanda

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Re: First People
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2018, 04:52:00 PM »

Yes Dennis, there is always more☺
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Prune Soleiado

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Re: First People
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2018, 09:28:44 PM »

Spiritually, those who are “living” are those who believe in God.
Our faith in God is what makes us come alive spiritually and makes us children of God.
John 1:12-12:  « Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God. Children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God. »

Eve is the very first woman to whom God gave eonian life.
And then she gave birth to children who had faith in God, she is the mother who started a descendance in the faith of God.
The Church of Christ is often compared to a woman in the Bible. A woman who gives birth, like in Revelation Chapter 12. A mother.

God made Eve the starting point of Christ’s Church.
 The Hebrew word for « mother» in Genesis 3:20 is « ´em » (Strong 0517), and it also means « starting point ».
Eve is the starting point of a spiritual nation, the citizens of Heavens.

Besides a family is binded by blood.
What better than the blood of Our Savior Jesus Christ to tie the « living » up with each other in God’s family?
The blood shed by Jesus Christ reconciles with God and justify us.
Ephesians 2:13 « But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ »
With this purification through Christ’s blood we become children of God.
Exodus 24:8 « This is the blood of the covenant that the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words »
1 John 3:2  « Dear friends, now we are children of God. »

We’re all one big spiritual living family.
And it started with Eve, the mother of livings.

« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 09:31:41 PM by Prune Soleiado »
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Prune Soleiado

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Re: First People
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2018, 09:39:51 PM »

Galatians 4:26  « But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. »
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