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[HoneyLamb56]

"that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth"

I have read that "heaven" is a spiritual realm of one's mind"; if this being so, then if there is  no geographical/physical realm of heaven, who then bows their knees in heaven?  because those on earth would be us as no one has ascended except Christ and, those under the earth I presume are those that are already dead. 

I have an idea but I would like to hear your comments.

Diane

[Porter]

Hi Diane, found this from one of Ray's papers. Hope it helps!

https://bible-truths.com/lake13.html

SEA, EARTH, AND HEAVEN

There are three realms spoken of in Revelation: sea, earth, and heaven:

"And the angel which I saw stand upon the SEA and upon the EARTH lifted up his hand to HEAVEN, and swore by Him that lives for ever and ever, [for the eons of the eons] , who created HEAVEN, and the things that therein are, and the EARTH, and the things that therein are, and the SEA, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer [no longer a time of delay] " (Rev. 10:5-6).

The angels [messengers] of God communicate things from heaven to both the earth and the sea:

"And the voice which I heard from heaven spoke unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the ANGEL which stands upon the sea and upon the earth" ( Rev. 10:8 )

There are three realms of humanity and three realms of spiritual understanding. The lowest of all is the sea. Those with at least some spiritual understanding are those who dwell in the earth. And those who have the very mind of Christ are those who dwell in heaven. ALL REALMS will give honor and glory to God:

"And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, [need I explain that 'fish' do not have the mental capacity to comprehend what is being taught here-these are MEN, MANKIND, HUMANITY] and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto Him that sits upon the throne, and upon the Lamb for the eons of the eons" (Rev. 5:13).

Is this not saying the identical thing that Paul teaches in Phil. 2:10-11:

"That at the name of Jesus every knee should BOW, of things [them] in heaven, and things [them] in earth, and things [them] under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

More proof:

"Therefore rejoice, ye heavens and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and [inhabitants] of the sea! ..." (Rev. 12:12).

Next notice that:

"And when the dragon saw that he was cast into the earth , he persecuted the WOMAN [the Church] which brought forth the man child [the manifest sons of God] " (Rev. 12:13).

Where is the Church? Does she dwell in the spiritual realms of heaven? No. Is she located in the sea? No. She dwells in the earth. She is higher than the sea, but lower than heaven; she dwells in the earth. These are the three realms spoken of in Revelation. If we can't get our thinking above the symbols themselves, we will never ever understand the book of Revelation.

[Joel]

The way I see it Philippians 2:10 is a all-encompassing statement similar to Romans 14:9
Romans 14:9- For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be LORD both of the dead and living.


Joel

[Porter]

Diane, I got to thinking (you kinda touched on it) that maybe it's not so much the WHERE people are bowing the knee, but the WHO. It's like Joel said, it's one of them all encompassing statements where EVERYONE will give honor and glory (bowing of the knee) to the Lord each in his or her own order.

[ML]

Luke 6:46
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Eventually though, everyone will not only call Him Lord, but also do the things that He says. Whether those in Heaven, on earth, and under the earth

[Porter]

Find this to be a very interesting subject, so I did a little more research and thought I'd share my findings.

One of the synonyms given for realm is kingdom.

realm

relm/

noun
LAW
archaic
literary

a kingdom.
"the peers of the realm"
synonyms:kingdom, country, land, dominion, nation

"peace in the realm"

Luk_17:21  Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

1Pe 2:9  But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 
1Pe 2:10  Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. 

Ray from an email once said: "God's heaven is a higher spiritual realm of life and existence, not a geographical location in outer space."

https://bible-truths.com/email4.htm#Muslim

Then I found this.

Mar 12:32  And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Mar 12:33  And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. 
Mar 12:34  And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question. 

This comes right back to what ML said.

Joh_14:15  If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh_14:23  Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Obeying the Lord is loving the Lord. The commandments are spiritual with very high (heavenly?) standards of living it seems.

Jesus was "in heaven" while He was physically on the earth.

Joh 3:13  No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven--the Son of Man.

God's Elect can be "in heaven" while on earth just like Jesus was.

1Jn 4:17  Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 

1Pe 1:15  But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation [conduct]; 
1Pe 1:16  Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. 

I feel like I could go on and on, but maybe it's easier to just say that it's all one about The One.

Do we not bow our knee in honor to God as He gets us to see and believe that "all is of God"? I'm sure there is a lot more to it, but I like to keep it simple

[ML]

God's Elect can be "in heaven" while on earth just like Jesus was.

1Jn 4:17  Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Ah, never made that connection before with that verse. Thanks!

[ML]

Would these have anything to what you shared Porter?

1Jn 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 

Col 1:26  the secret that hath been hid from the ages and from the generations, but now was manifested to his saints, 
Col 1:27  to whom God did will to make known what is the riches of the glory of this secret among the nations—which is Christ in you, the hope of the glory

KJV 1Co 13:12  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 

CLV 1Co 13:12 For at present we are observing by means of a mirror, in an enigma, yet then, face to face. At present I know out of an instalment, yet then I shall recognize according as I am recognized also.

JM-NT 1Co 13:12  For, you see, at the present moment we continue seeing and observing through means of a metal mirror, within the midst of an enigma (the result of something obscurely expressed and intimated, giving an indistinct image), but then [it will be] face to face.  Right now I am progressively coming to intimately and experientially know from out of a part (a piece; a portion of the whole), but then I shall fully and accurately know and recognize, from intimate experience, correspondingly as I am also fully and accurately known, by intimate experience.

[HoneyLamb56]

Thank you Porter; I now remember reading this material about the realm; it now comes back to me; wish there was a way to do a phrasing search on Ray's material like we can when we are logged into the blog; would be soooo helpful. 

Thank you ML and Joel for your responses also; so much depth in scripture to contemplate.

[ML]

Your welcome HoneyLamb. Always a joy to share His truths with those who have been given hearing, isn't it?

Just remembered this too. Hopefully it is relevant.

1Ti 2:4  Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Joh 14:6 Jesus is saying to him, "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one is coming to the Father except through Me.

[Porter]

Would these have anything to what you shared Porter?

1Jn 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Col 1:26  the secret that hath been hid from the ages and from the generations, but now was manifested to his saints,
Col 1:27  to whom God did will to make known what is the riches of the glory of this secret among the nations—which is Christ in you, the hope of the glory

KJV 1Co 13:12  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

CLV 1Co 13:12 For at present we are observing by means of a mirror, in an enigma, yet then, face to face. At present I know out of an instalment, yet then I shall recognize according as I am recognized also.

JM-NT 1Co 13:12  For, you see, at the present moment we continue seeing and observing through means of a metal mirror, within the midst of an enigma (the result of something obscurely expressed and intimated, giving an indistinct image), but then [it will be] face to face.  Right now I am progressively coming to intimately and experientially know from out of a part (a piece; a portion of the whole), but then I shall fully and accurately know and recognize, from intimate experience, correspondingly as I am also fully and accurately known, by intimate experience.

I can't help but to see it's all connected being the "biography of Christ". The verses you shared reminded me that we merely have a taste of heaven, a "down payment" according to the HCSB translation.


Eph 1:14  He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.


That's keeping it real