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Author Topic: Literally and Physically True?  (Read 1837 times)

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lareli

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Re: Literally and Physically True?
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2018, 10:41:12 AM »

Didnít mean to perplex you Wanda.. got off track when responding to Daveís comment about psychology not saving you after you die. My point was that I see the Bible as spiritually and psychologically true but not all of it is literally true. Which parts are literally true or not.. Iím not sure. I donít know that it matters if I believe a part is literally true as long as I believe it as spiritually/psychologically true.

The life, death, burial, resurrection of Christ was the original aspect of my question. Because Dave had mentioned in another thread that scripture requires literal belief of some things but not of everything. Iím paraphrasing Daveís comment.
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Literally and Physically True?
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2018, 01:35:57 PM »

The life, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus is literally and spiritually true in all aspects as described in the New Testament.

Everything and all salvation hangs on it.

Which is why Satan attacks the truth and in his subtle ways tries to cast doubts on the truth.
All he wants is for his minions to cast the slightest doubts and thereby overthrow the spiritually weak who are not the Elect.  Of course, Satan has no power over the Elect.
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Literally and Physically True?
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2018, 02:44:22 PM »

Quote
Of course, Satan has no power over the Elect.

Maybe define "power" John. Because I wrestle and fall all the time. Vanity, lust, etc. None of us are perfect (yet).

Pro 24:16  For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

Eph 6:12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Literally and Physically True?
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2018, 04:47:01 PM »

Quote
Of course, Satan has no power over the Elect.

Maybe define "power" John. Because I wrestle and fall all the time. Vanity, lust, etc. None of us are perfect (yet).

Pro 24:16  For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

Eph 6:12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

I agree with your Scriptures.  You seem to have the same problem I do.  I cannot stop sinning.  Good thing we have a Savior.


However, the Sriptures tell us God chose the Elect before creation.

There is no free will.  We cannot choose to be the Elect.  Neither can we unchoose to be the Elect.
God is sovereign.  Whom God has chosen to be the Elect, will be the Elect at God's appointed time.  Satan has no power to negate God's will.  Satan cannot deceive the Elect or stop the Elect.

Which is why it is written in the Book of Revelation, that the Woman, the true Church, will be taken on the wings of eagles, to be protected from the flood of waters sent by Satan to harm the true Church, the Elect.  It is God Who protects the Elect, His chosen ones.  We have nothing to fear.
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Literally and Physically True?
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2018, 05:16:07 PM »

Understood
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indianabob

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Re: Literally and Physically True?
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2018, 11:53:53 PM »

absolutely correct John,

We are weak and may sin up until the last day, but God shall have His way and those God elects cannot be lost.  Although, in my view, we can suffer quite a bit from necessary and beneficial correction along the way. For sure we will not be able to say "I did it my way".

Even so, God's correction, based on full knowledge of our limitations, is from love and leads to each person being corrected according to their strengths and weaknesses given to each one by God.

Indiana bob





Quote
Of course, Satan has no power over the Elect.

Maybe define "power" John. Because I wrestle and fall all the time. Vanity, lust, etc. None of us are perfect (yet).

Pro 24:16  For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

Eph 6:12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

I agree with your Scriptures.  You seem to have the same problem I do.  I cannot stop sinning.  Good thing we have a Savior.


However, the Sriptures tell us God chose the Elect before creation.

There is no free will.  We cannot choose to be the Elect.  Neither can we unchoose to be the Elect.
God is sovereign.  Whom God has chosen to be the Elect, will be the Elect at God's appointed time.  Satan has no power to negate God's will.  Satan cannot deceive the Elect or stop the Elect.

Which is why it is written in the Book of Revelation, that the Woman, the true Church, will be taken on the wings of eagles, to be protected from the flood of waters sent by Satan to harm the true Church, the Elect.  It is God Who protects the Elect, His chosen ones.  We have nothing to fear.
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Wanda

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Re: Literally and Physically True?
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2018, 03:31:36 PM »

we also have a hope that many do not. if they do believe they live with a doctrin that teaches God does not save all,  and in addition,  has a place of eternal torment for many. From my experience there's no hope,  peace or comfort to be found in that.

We know the plan, the purpose and the outcome, which is a glorious hope we've been given. When this age is complete, the salvation of all will be realized by everyone who has ever been given life,  and we will All rejoice and give praise and glory to the one who purposed it all.

Personally, I don't give much thought to being one of the chosen. I'm blessed to be called and be able to see many of these truths, which were hidden for many years. Our God has the great wisdom, and ability to accomplish his perfect and just will,  to prosper us All in his righteous ways. Each and everyone. We will All be ritchly blessed, being freed from this slavery of sin we fight so hard against.

There is great comfort and assurance to be found in these words.

Jeremiah 29:11

11 For I know the plans I have for you,Ē declares the Lord, ďplans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.


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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
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ML

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Re: Literally and Physically True?
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2018, 04:38:04 PM »

Right Wanda. Let's also keep this in mind, and try not to forget these words, but to always be in rememberance of them.

Romans 15
6That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 6
20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Even if we are only called, we will all be reconciled to God. God has given us these Truths, so give Him praise for that.
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John 1
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Wanda

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Re: Literally and Physically True?
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2018, 12:45:37 PM »

Quote
Even if we are only called, we will all be reconciled to God. God has given us these Truths, so give Him praise for that.
1 Peter 1:

3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you,
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Wanda

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Re: Literally and Physically True?
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2018, 02:49:28 PM »

Tennesse Dave stated in another thread there was a way to tell if you might be of the elect class, and it involved love. I pondered on that from time to time, until I came across this parable in Luke.

 Luke 14:12-14.

12 And He went on to say to the one who had invited Him, When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return, and repayment come to you. 13 But when you give a reception, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, 14 And you will be blessed, since they do not have the means to repay you, for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.

The first thing that came to mind was, God is LOVE. Believing in that long before I was called, and I believe it  was the very thing God used to call me to him.  It is the single most important aspect of who he is,  the driving motivation for all he does. For God so loved the world he died for us. There is no greater love.  He loves us without expectation.

What I believeJesus is saying here,  that to attain the first resurrection, “the resurrection of the just,” one must know and practice the principle of grace and love without expectation.

Maybe fretting over our inability to fight sin is tangled up in this truth. Perhaps the more we extend AGAPEO love to others without expecting anything in return, the less we will sin.

I edited this post to reflect the correction on the types of love, Ray taught, I didnt want to confuse or misrepresent Ray.


« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 05:38:04 PM by Wanda »
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

John from Kentucky

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Re: Literally and Physically True?
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2018, 09:15:16 PM »

Actually Ray taught that the phileo type of love was a better type of love than agape love.

Very many false Christian teachers and ministers teach that agape love is the highest form of love.  Very boring and something you hear over and over.
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Literally and Physically True?
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2018, 09:20:29 PM »

Actually Ray taught that the phileo type of love was a better type of love than agape love.

Very many false Christian teachers and ministers teach that agape love is the highest form of love.  Very boring and something you hear over and over.

Yep - Here is the YouTube video: https://youtu.be/PT7CANf88VY
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Wanda

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Re: Literally and Physically True?
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2018, 09:46:23 PM »

Thanks for correction on that important difference.
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Wanda

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Re: Literally and Physically True?
« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2018, 12:24:13 AM »

Quote
Yep - Here is the YouTube video: https://youtu.be/PT7CANf88VY

Thanks, I needed to listen again.



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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

lareli

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Re: Literally and Physically True?
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2018, 04:06:04 PM »

The life, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus is literally and spiritually true in all aspects as described in the New Testament.

Everything and all salvation hangs on it.

Which is why Satan attacks the truth and in his subtle ways tries to cast doubts on the truth.
All he wants is for his minions to cast the slightest doubts and thereby overthrow the spiritually weak who are not the Elect.  Of course, Satan has no power over the Elect.

Doubting is part of the process of knowing. Satanís attacks are necessary.. for overthrowing some and for strengthening others.
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Literally and Physically True?
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2018, 10:31:08 PM »

The life, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus is literally and spiritually true in all aspects as described in the New Testament.

Everything and all salvation hangs on it.

Which is why Satan attacks the truth and in his subtle ways tries to cast doubts on the truth.
All he wants is for his minions to cast the slightest doubts and thereby overthrow the spiritually weak who are not the Elect.  Of course, Satan has no power over the Elect.

Doubting is part of the process of knowing. Satanís attacks are necessary.. for overthrowing some and for strengthening others.

Not so.  Jesus said, "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

When Jesus' Spirit gives you the truth, it does not come with doubts.  You know with a certainty when you are plugged into the real thing.  It is called Faith and is a gift from God.  You got it or you don't.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 10:35:30 PM by John from Kentucky »
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lareli

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Re: Literally and Physically True?
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2018, 10:59:45 AM »

The life, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus is literally and spiritually true in all aspects as described in the New Testament.

Everything and all salvation hangs on it.

Which is why Satan attacks the truth and in his subtle ways tries to cast doubts on the truth.
All he wants is for his minions to cast the slightest doubts and thereby overthrow the spiritually weak who are not the Elect.  Of course, Satan has no power over the Elect.

Doubting is part of the process of knowing. Satanís attacks are necessary.. for overthrowing some and for strengthening others.

Not so. Jesus said, "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

When Jesus' Spirit gives you the truth, it does not come with doubts.  You know with a certainty when you are plugged into the real thing.  It is called Faith and is a gift from God.  You got it or you don't.

I said Ďpart of the processí. The process of coming to the truth begins before you know the truth... *obviously.

Would you be here if you hadnít first doubted what the Christian Church had taught you? Do you think Satan wanted you to doubt what the Christian Church had taught you?

Besides I donít doubt the truth. All of scripture is true. I just donít know which parts are literal/physical versus spiritual. And I donít know if that matters. Maybe you know. I do not.

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Musterseed

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Re: Literally and Physically True?
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2018, 01:52:16 PM »

Aren't the Christian churches the synagogues of Satan? Donít they froth at the mouth
to get people to have faith IN Jesus Christ ? Because if you donít believe IN Christ you will
remain in your sins and be condemned to hell. Isnít that what they preach?
Why? Because they dispise Godís Word, Truth, Jesus is truth and Jesus is faith.
It is my understanding that this faith we have belongs to Jesus and He gives us a measure , maybe
just the size of a mustard seed but this little bit of faith
is through the Divine Holy Spirit as a gift.
Saved by Grace THROUGH Faith , THROUGH Jesus. There are many scriptures on Faith and in my humble and sincere opinion I believe there is a big difference in having faith IN Christ and having
the faith OF Christ. I believe it increases when we seek the truth more and more. Is that what
the parable of the bags of gold is about. To invest The gold wisely , keep digging , turn His  five
bags of gold into ten and even get what the lazy and wicked had. Anyway , about doubting.
We all know the near story of Doubting Thomas. John 19-29.
The scriptures make it a point to tell us the doors were locked both times that Jesus appeared.
Reminding us and proving to the deciples that He is Spirit and can appear out of thin air.😮😃
But now He is also flesh and speaks, ďPeace be with YouĒ proving Himself yet again, but
Jesus knows Thomas still doubts because Jesus reads his thoughts of course and obliges Thomas to feel His flesh proving once again that He Jesus is real. Thomas was not with the apostles the week
that they received the Holy Spirit. Did Thomas (Didymus, which means twin, or double) receive
the Holy Spirit when Jesus said ďstop doubting and believe)?
28- Thomas saidĒ my Lord and my GodĒ
29- Then Jesus told himĒ Because you have seen me, you have believed; but Blessed are those
who have not seen and yet have believedĒ
I have a question, who does Thomas represent?

James 1:5-9
If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God who gives generously to all without finding
fault and it will be given to you. But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because
the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That person
should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. Such a person is double -minded and
unstable in all they do.

James 2:5
Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has Not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be RICH IN FAITH and to inherit the Kingdom He promised those who LOVE HIM.

We are very Blessed here at BT to have this sacred knowledge. We may not all have the same
measure of faith but we do Love Him. It is my belief that we are here because this is where God has planted us whether we like it or not. Our ways are not His ways. We are being remoulded on the potters wheel and it hurts like heck at times but until we are a finished , shiny, unbreakable
pot passed through the hot kiln , we will endure. May God be with us and have mercy on His
new creation through this process. All Praise and All Glory to Our Dear Lord and Savior God Almighty,,,,,, Jesus Christ. He is all that matters. My Love to all of you ,  Pamela
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cjwood

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Re: Literally and Physically True?
« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2018, 02:20:04 AM »


Yep - Here is the YouTube video: https://youtu.be/PT7CANf88VY




thank you dennis for posting this video by ray.  with the state of things in this country and in the world we are living in it helps tremendously to know how believers in Christ are to apply the two different types of love.

claudia
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