> General Discussions
End Time Prophecies
Dennis Vogel:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on July 04, 2019, 05:15:45 PM ---What is the intrinsic value of gold?
--- End quote ---
Only the value people put on it for a time, but after that, even gold will be worthless.
Eze 7:19 They shall cast their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be removed: their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the LORD: they shall not satisfy their souls, neither fill their bowels: because it is the stumblingblock of their iniquity.
Heidi:
--- Quote from: Dennis Vogel on July 04, 2019, 06:05:04 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on July 04, 2019, 05:15:45 PM ---What is the intrinsic value of gold?
--- End quote ---
Eze 7:19 They shall cast their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be removed: their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the LORD: they shall not satisfy their souls, neither fill their bowels: because it is the stumblingblock of their iniquity.
--- End quote ---
We can always trust in your replies Dave, you have bookended it with your scripture :)
I am grateful to God that physical gold and silver is of no value to me.....I'm interested in the spiritual gold and silver ;)
Heidi
Dave in Tenn:
So currency has almost no intrinsic value. And gold has only slightly more.
Rev_3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Is The Lord counseling thee to buy better gold? Is the gold He's selling/trading a heavier, shinier, purer mineral? There is physical gold and there is spiritual gold. Why must I believe that the Gold of the Revelation of Jesus Christ (the Spirit of Prophecy) is the former? Is some of it "real" and some of it "spiritual"? Isn't that a worthless question?
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
One more question...will Mike Maloney be happy when/if there is a total global economic collapse? How about a national or regional one? Will any of you be happy?
Speaking of filling "bowels/bellies"...1Co 6:13 Foods for the belly, and the belly for foods, but God will destroy (lit. "render entirely useless") both this and these...
We have what we have until we don't have it any more. We don't have to wait till we "get to heaven" or for that Great day of the Lord in the future. The day I die I will lose belly, food, gold, currency, and my soul. Today, I am being crucified with Christ. But I'm not dead yet, just as He wasn't until He was.
Hang in there, Heidi.
Dennis Vogel:
--- Quote ---One more question...will Mike Maloney be happy when/if there is a total global economic collapse? How about a national or regional one? Will any of you be happy?
--- End quote ---
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Mike Maloney (and others) can see what's coming and are preparing for, at worst, a 'global economic collapse'.
Remember 2008? https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97801606
Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Mat 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Dave in Tenn:
From the Rapture paper. I'd urge everybody to read it, long as it is. It is much more than a refutation of an eschatological theory:
http://bible-truths.com/rapture.htm
We have already shown in Scripture that the great tribulation ends at our Lord's advent, it does not begin. Nor is the tribulation ushered in, as a thief, three and one half years earlier or seven years earlier. It is our Lord's "coming" that is as a thief, not "tribulation." "Gloominess" and "darkness" during the time of the day of the Lord is not the main aspect of the figure of a thief or even a minor aspect of this figure of a thief. The Bible tells us plainly what the figure represents. It is representative of " when He comes" -- "His coming"! Nothing else.
"Darkness and gloom" is not being compared with "a thief in the night," at all. The world is in darkness and gloom, but the actual "coming" of our Lord is in no way analogous to "gloom and darkness." How can anyone even suggest that the Lord's coming as a thief is comparable to night, darkness, or gloom, when the Scriptures plainly tell us that,
"... even as the lightning is coming out from the east and is appearing as far as the west , thus shall be the PRESENCE of the Son of Mankind"
(Matt. 24:27).
Nothing is as bright as lightning--not even the sun. No one will know when our Lord comes, but when He appears, everyone on earth will know!
"... then all the tribes of the land shall grieve, and they shall see the Son of Mankind coming on the clouds of heaven with power and much GLORY"! (Mat. 24:30).
"Power," "Glory," and "LIGHTNING" have no fellowship with "darkness," "evil" and "gloom"!
Furthermore, the fact that Christ is coming "as" "a thief in the night" has absolutely nothing to do with either an actual thief or actual night time. And, likewise, it has nothing to do with negativism. This is figurative language. This is not to be taken literally. Let us be clear, that Jesus Christ is not coming as a thief, to steal! And He is not coming at night so that no one can see Him coming (the aspect of His coming as "lightning" should dispel any such idea).
If we would let the Scriptures speak to us and explain things to us, it would become abundantly clear that there is only one aspect of Christ's coming that is applicable to "a thief in the night." Actually, the phrase "in the night" is not even necessary to our understanding of this idiom. In fact, most Scripture references even drop the aspect of "in the night" and refer only to "a thief."
"Now that be knowing, for if the householder were aware in what watch the thief is combing, he would watch, and would not let his house be tunneled into" (Mat. 24:43). (Night is not mentioned).
"Now the day of the Lord will be arriving as a thief ..." (II Pet. 3:10). (Night is not mentioned).
"Now this you know, that if the householder were aware at what hour the thief is coming, he would watch ..." (Lk. 12:39). (Night is not mentioned).
"Now you brethren, are not in darkness, that the day may be overtaking you as a thief ..." (I Thes. 5:4). (Night is not mentioned).
"I shall be arriving on you as a thief ..." (Rev. 3:3). (Night is not mentioned).
"Lo! I am coming as a thief! Happy is he who is watching ..." (Rev. 16:15). (Night is not mentioned).
From all these Scriptures it is clear that "in the night" is not an important aspect of this idiom. It's just that most thieves do come at night, but it is not necessary that a thief come at night in order to be perfectly suited to the one aspect of Christ's coming that is likened to the coming of a thief, or surely six separate Scriptures would not have left "in the night" out of this idiom. Here is a major proof that coming as a thief has absolutely nothing to do with darkness or gloominess, or for sure, the phrase "in the night" would never be left out of this idiom.
We might ask whether it is even possible for someone coming from Heaven (assuming that heaven is above earth's atmosphere?) to this Earth, to do so "at night?" After all, when approaching the Earth from outer space, it is always daylight over half the earth!
In Jerusalem, however, our Lord's coming might be, "... at evening, or midnight, or cock crowing, or morning ..." (Mark 13:35).
I almost hesitate to comment on the argument that if the figure of a thief represents the unexpectedness of Christ's coming, then those watching would not be surprised when He came. But if that is so, then we conclude that those who are watching will not be surprised by His arrival, yet Matt. 24:43-44 suggests that even if they are ready, such an hour as you think not the Son of Man comes. (Emphasis mine).
Is the writer suggesting that this Scripture contradicts the idea that Christ's coming is as a thief? That if some should be "watching," then they will not be surprised when Christ comes? Such an idea is not logical or sound reasoning. Let me attempt to state this idea clearly. Can we agree on the fact that Jesus did not lie when He said: "Now, concerning that day and hour no one is aware, neither the messengers of the heavens, nor the Son; except the Father only" (Matt. 24:36)? Okay then, no one knows when Christ will return. So, even if one is watching, he still will not know when He will return! The very fact that someone would be "watching" is proof positive that he DOESN'T known when the return occurs.
Those "not watching" probably don't even believe Christ is going to return. They will be surprised when it happens. Those who "are watching" believe the Christ is going to return, but neither do they know when He will return. The figure of the thief represents the unexpectedness of His coming--nothing else. If one knows the exact hour that a guest is to arrive at his home, he doesn't need to sit by the window watching for days or weeks. If he knows the exact hour, he could, in fact, set his alarm clock and go to sleep. Here's another point from this figure of a thief. It's a minor point, but nevertheless, a point. Matt. 24 not only states that no one will know when our Lord will return, but it even further suggests that it will be at a time considered the most unlikely. Notice it: "... for in an hour which you are not supposing, the Son of Mankind is coming" (Verse 44).
Consider also, that if Christ wanted to give a figure of speech that represents the day of the Lord (rather than His actual "appearing"), then "as a thief" would be totally inappropriate.
The Day of the Lord represents: Vengeance, Wrath, Indignation, Fire, Gloominess, Darkness, Clouds and Murkiness, Mourning, Devastation, War, Pain, Suffering, and Death--wholesale DEATH. One might choose to represent such evil, A Monster, Satan, a Devil, A Wild Beast, or some such thing, but not a "thief.". Our Lord doesn't even suggest that it is "an armed robber or thief"--just " a thief." A "thief" is not in the least representative of the horrors of worldwide pain, suffering, fear, and slaughter. A "thief" is about as analogous to or representative of these unprecedented horrors and carnage of most of the human race as a teddy bear or a rubber ducky would be. And that's why God does use Monsters, Wild Beasts, demons, and Satan himself, as the personification of the greatest evils in history, not "a thief"!
If Christ's actual return and appearing in great glory is not a thing of darkness, gloominess, and negativism, how then does Christ return to this Earth "as a thief," or "as a thief in the night?" We don't need to use human reasoning or speculation, many Scriptures tell us exactly how His return is "as a thief." Christ returns to this Earth is as a thief in that no one will know when He will return. The time of His return, is unexpected. And that is the only way in which Christ comes as "a thief." Not one of these Scriptures (which fully and simply explain the figure of a thief), mentions one word about the "ominousness" of the dark and gloomy day as the reason for the figure of a thief. Here are the Scriptures:
"... if the householder were aware in what watch the thief is coming, he would watch ..." (Mat. 24:43). But he didn't know when and neither will anyone else know when He returns.
"Now, concerning that day and hour no one is aware, neither the messengers of the heavens, nor the Son ..." (Mat. 24:36).
"For even as the days of Noah, thus shall be the presence of the So of Mankind. "...for as they were in the days before the deluge ... and did not know till the deluge came ..." (Mat. 24:37-39).
"Be watching, then, for you are not aware on what day your Lord is Coming" (Matt. 24:42).
"... for in an hour which you are not supposing, the Son of Mankind is coming" (Mat. 24:24-44).
"... for you are not aware when the lord of the house is coming ..."
(Mk 13:35).
"Not yours is it to know times or eras ..." (Acts 1:7).
"I shall be arriving on you as a thief, and under no circumstances will you be knowing what hour I shall be arriving" (Rev. 3:3).
There we have eight separate Scriptural explanations as to why and how Christ returns as a thief, and not one of these Scriptures connects a thief with the ominousness of gloominess, darkness, and the like. Christ does not return as a thief because it is gloomy out. He does not return as a thief because He will come in the middle of the night. And He does not come as a thief because that He, Himself, is a thief. No, none of these. He comes as a thief, unexpectedly. That's it. We don't know when. All eight verses pinpoint the one aspect of unexpectedness!
I'm not arguing that bad things can't happen. Of course they can. I AM arguing that nobody can rightfully claim that any of them are "signs of the end" and the coming of the Lord.
Perhaps it is something else entirely we should be "watching".
The term "Spirit of Prophecy" is found in:
Rev_19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
I'm well aware that "Prophecy" is a much sexier topic than "Spirit". But whatever events occur, our ultimate salvation is not temporary/physical and confined to this life as grass. Whether we live or die, we live or die unto Him.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version