> General Discussions
End Time Prophecies
Stacey:
Porter,
Its all a parable according to Ray in this email response,
Hi ray,
Thanks for the encouragement.. can you tell me what you mean when you say all of the scriptures are a parable?
Thanks,
Dave
Dear Dave:
Well, not really, not in less than a hour or so, but I'll give you a hint. God is the Creator. He made everything. He made everthing for a purpose. There is one grand goal that God has for the entire human race. The Christian Church has not a CLUE as to what that goal is or how it will be accomplish. The whole plan and purpose is outlined in the Scriptures. But just as NONE of the people who heard Jesus teach in parables, understood His parables, so the Whole Bible is one GIANT parable which the Church does not understand. In a nutshell: God is creating the human race into HIS VERY OWN SPIRITUAL IMAGE. Oh, I thought that already was accomplished back in the Garden, wasn't it? I told you it's all one GIANT PARABLE!
God be with you,
Ray
Wanda:
--- Quote from: AwesomeSavior on July 11, 2019, 08:06:49 AM ---Wanda, it would be nice if you are correct in the assumption that Matthew 24 was only limited to the destruction of Jerusalem, but I have my doubts.
Going back to the same verses, were there earthquakes in diverse places when the Temple was destroyed in 70 A.D.?
Had the gospel been preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations?
Did they see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory?
Were all the elect gathered from the four winds of heaven at the great sound of a trumpet?
Had many already come in his name saying He was the Christ, and had deceived many?
Are we assuming that the end of this eon is going to be a peaceful one rather than a tumultuous one?
For me, there are too many verses listed in that chapter that have a later literal fulfillment application, in addition to what has happened in 70 A.D.
--- End quote ---
IDean -
I'm going to post a reply to your questions in three parts, so as not to lay down one long wall of text. Keep in mind this is what I understand at this time, and I'm a work in progress.
Did they see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory?
Matt 24
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
Compare with -
Matthew 26:64
“Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.”
Can we physically, with our eyes see this?
Was Jesus speaking of his second coming or his coming to take vengeance on the Jewish nation, after his return to power and glory?
The sign of the son of man coming on the clouds with power and glory would certainly be understood by the nation of Israel, as they had been forwarned. They understood this was a judgement upon them by God himself, and those that paid heed to the signs Jesus spoke of were spared.
Hereafter
here·af·ter
/hirˈaftər/
adverb
synonyms:from now on, after this, as of now, from this day on, from this time on, from this moment forth, from this day forth, from this day forward, subsequently, in future, in the future, hence, henceforth, henceforward;
Had the gospel been preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations?
Titus destroyed Jerusalem and the temple about two years after Pauls death.
Paul speaks of the gospel work in these scriptures.
Colossians 1:23 (KJV)
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Colossians 1:6 (KJV)
6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
Were all the elect gathered from the four winds of heaven at the great sound of a trumpet?
Matt 24
31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
Notice, this scripture does not say All
If the gospel had been preached in all the world, as paul seems to be saying, then the elect of that time were gathered fom the four winds of heaven. Does that mean the work would not continue, I don't think so, else none of us would have been led to Ray, who preached the true gospel, the same one the apostles preached. And yet there is something that makes the work of the apostles more significant in all of this, I haven't figured out why though.
Wanda:
Had many already come in his name saying He was the Christ, and had deceived many?
Yes, Paul spoke of this often, always warning of these decevers.
Going back to the same verses, were there earthquakes in diverse places when the Temple was destroyed in 70 A.D.?
Did these precede the destruction of Jerusalem, there is abundant historic evidence.
All these signs are mentioned by unbelieving writers such as Josephus, Tacitus, Suetonius, Philostratus, and Seneca, who speak of them because of their importance and not with any reference to the prophecy of Christ. I'm sure more could be found.
1. A great earthquake in Crete, A. D. 46 or 47.
2. One at Rome when Nero assumed the manly toga, A. D. 51.
3. One at Apamĉa in Phrygia, mentioned by Tacitus, A. D. 53. 4. One at Laodicea in Phrygia, A. D. 60.
5. One in Campania, A. D. 62 or 63. There were an indefinite number of famines referred to by Roman writers, and at least one pestilence during which thirty thousand perished in Rome alone.
Are we assuming that the end of this eon is going to be a peaceful one rather than a tumultuous one?
Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but that's what I see.
Matt 24
(15) Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel, the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), (16) then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Jesus was referencing Daniel 12:11. It seems obvious that "the abomination of desolation" is associated with the desolation of Jerusalem and especially the temple in 70 A.D.
It's my understanding the following versus are specific to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple,
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
After getting past the signs that apply to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, I'm reminded of the scriptures that say there's nothing new under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 (KJV)
9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
In Matt 24, What new signs could Jesus possibly give us that would distinguish the time of his coming from all others?
Applying signs Jesus meant for a specific event, time and people to our day, is from my experiene, futile.
Wanda:
We can't overlook what Jesus is telling us about world conditions prior to his coming , otherwise we'll be deceived, mostly by ourselves.
Matt 24
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
This could be describing our day.
Is Jesus coming in destruction?
Dave so kindly posted and suggested we read Ray's Rapture paper again, for good reason.
--- Quote ---From the Rapture paper. I'd urge everybody to read it, long as it is. It is much more than a refutation of an theory:
--- End quote ---
https://bible-truths.com/rapture.htm
Except
We have already shown in Scripture that the great tribulation ends at our Lord's advent, it does not begin. Nor is the tribulation ushered in, as a thief, three and one half years earlier or seven years earlier. It is our Lord's "coming" that is as a thief, not "tribulation." "Gloominess" and "darkness" during the time of the day of the Lord is not the main aspect of the figure of a thief or even a minor aspect of this figure of a thief. The Bible tells us plainly what the figure represents. It is representative of " when He comes" -- "His coming"! Nothing else.
Wanda:
Dennis,
I was also thinking there is a lot of speculation about moving away from cash all together. I read recently there slowly doing away with atm machines. The purpose is to move everyone to cards for all buying activity. If that's true, wouldn't a bank card have a chip and numbers?
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