> General Discussions
End Time Prophecies
Dennis Vogel:
--- Quote from: yello62 on November 12, 2018, 10:26:20 PM ---Are my posts getting missed? I never said that God sins. And Pamela, I agree 100% that God created the adversary for the express purpose of the work that he does. In fact, no adversary, no Christ. it was part of the job of the adversary to reveal Christ.
--- End quote ---
I did not have you in mind at all when I made that post. I realized I may have made it sound like I was criticizing John and wanted to make sure no one thought that. That's all.
yello62:
i misunderstood, i apologize.
Wanda:
Dean,
Your narrative regarding Gods wrath being directed on those today, trying to enforce land boundaries on Israel, is based on the old covenant thinking.
The New Jerusalem is NOT the Old Jerusalem restored. It is a new location. And its temple is our body.
The prophet tells us God's reasons for leaving Jerusalem in Jer. 7:9-11,
(9) Will you steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and offer sacrifices to Baal, and walk after other gods that you have not known, (10) then come and stand before Me in this house, which is called by My name, and say, 'We are delivered!'--that you may do all these abominations? (11) Has this house, which is called by My name, become a den of robbers in your sight?
This same indictment came upon the second temple, when Jesus cast out the bankers from the temple (Matt. 21:12, 13). In applying that wording to the second temple, Jesus was prophesying its destruction as in the days of Jeremiah.
Back in the days of Joshua, Israel set up the Ark of the Covenant in a town of Ephraim called Shiloh (Joshua 18:1). Jeremiah says in 7:12,
"But go now to My place which was in Shiloh, where I made My name dwell at the first, and see what I did to it because of the wickedness of My people Israel."
Three or four centuries later, God found fault with Jerusalem in the same manner as with Shiloh, according to Jeremiah. The temple in Jerusalem had become "a den of robbers" (i.e., a hideout and refuge from the law).
"(14) Therefore, I will do to the house which is called by Name, in which you trust, and to the place which I gave you and your fathers, as I did to Shiloh. (15) And I will cast you out of My sight, as I have cast out all your brothers, all the offspring of Ephraim."
Ezekiel 10:4says "the glory of God went up from the cherub to the threshold of the temple." In verse 19 the glory of His presence moved to the east gate. Finally in 11:23,
"And the glory of the Lord went up from the midst of the city and stood over the mountain which is east of the city."
Jesus came as the representative of the glory of God. After His death and resurrection, He ascended to heaven on the Mount of Olives Acts 1:12
This completed God's exodus from Jerusalem, now that Jesus had finished His ministry there. The glory of God had to ascend first in order to return to the new Temple ten days later on the day of Pentecost. This new Temple is made of "living stones" (1 Peter 2:5). Paul says in 1 Cor. 3:16,
"Do you not know that you are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?"
When God left Shiloh, He never returned. God then left Jerusalem and treated that city "as I did to Shiloh." Since the fulfillment of Pentecost in Acts 2:1, He has chosen to indwell human flesh as His Temple. Each of us is a temple individually, but speaking corporately, we are each just one living stone in a collective Temple Eph. 2:21
If I'm misunderstanding your narrative, please correct me, otherwise I'm confused. Why is God protecting the interests of modern day Israel?
AwesomeSavior:
Hi Wanda:
I am well aware that the Jews living in Israel are not spiritual Jews, and are not heirs of the salvation of Jesus [until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in (Luke 21:24 and Romans 11:25)]. I know that these promises are only for The Elect. I know.
That being said... I will quote numerous Scriptures from the book of Romans, mostly from chapter 11, but also from chapter 9, and a few from the Old Testament. They won't be in perfect chronological order. See if these Scriptures show that God still treasures the NATURAL Jews; I am using all these Scriptures to answer your concerns. I will start with Romans chapter nine, and I will use capital letters for emphasis.
"I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost. That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that MYSELF WERE ACCURSED from Christ for my BRETHREN, my kinsmen according to the FLESH: Who ARE ISRAELITES; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose ARE the FATHERS, and of whom as concerning the FLESH Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. (Romans 9:1-5)
"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I ALSO am an ISRAELITE, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew..." (Romans 11:1-2). There is a double witness that God has NOT cast them away.
"I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for TO PROVOKE THEM TO JEALOUSY" (Romans 11:11).
"Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how MUCH MORE their FULNESS?" (Romans 11:12)
"For if the casting away of them BE THE RECONCILING OF THE WORLD, what shall THE RECEIVING OF THEM BE, but life from the dead?" (Romans 11:15)
"BOAST NOT against the branches...(Romans 11:18)
"Thou will say then, The (natural) branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well, because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. BE NOT HIGHMINDED, BUT FEAR: For if God spared not the NATURAL BRANCHES, take heed lest he also not spare thee" (Romans 11:19-21). "And if some of the (natural) branches be broken off, and THOU, being a WILD olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;" (Romans 11:17). " For if THOU wert cut out of the olive tree which is WILD by nature, and wert grafted CONTRARY TO NATURE into a good olive tree: HOW MUCH MORE shall these, WHICH BE THE NATURAL BRANCHES, be grafted into THEIR OWN olive tree? (Romans 11:24). Paul made clear who are the wild branches, and who are the natural branches.
"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, LEST YOU SHOULD BE WISE IN YOUR OWN CONCEITS; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in". (Romans 11:25)
"As concerning the GOSPEL, they are ENEMIES for your sakes: but as touching the ELECTION, they are BELOVED for the father's sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are WITHOUT REPENTANCE" (Romans 11:28-29).
Just to be clear, and to repeat my first sentence... I am well aware that they are not the spiritual heirs of the promises of Jesus, as those promises are for people that God has chosen from each generation, beginning at Pentecost. However, Paul made it clear that they are the NATURAL branches in verses 21 and 24, and we are the WILD branches grafted into the olive tree, in verses 17 and 24. And even though they are enemies as concerning the gospel, they are beloved for the father's sake (the Patriarchs).
The original land grant given to Abraham and HIS SEED is found in Genesis 15:18, and it stretches from the Nile River in the middle of Egypt to the Euphrates River, running through the midst of modern day Iraq. God says He SWARES this land unto them and their seed (Deuteronomy 1:8 and Deuteronomy 6:10).
So, in conclusion, even though the spiritual promises of God are only for The Elect, the NATURAL promises of that land in the Middle East are still in force today, and I can easily prove it because I have been personally keeping track of the headlines regarding America trying to divide that Land, and also before I started keeping track, through research, of attempts made by this country to do this very thing in the past, going back to 1991 and the event known as The Perfect Storm, which was made into a Hollywood movie. I can say and post with confidence when God is going to send another catastrophe upon America, only because God is causing me to watch this situation like a HAWK.
I became very interested when Dennis made this thread, in trying to decipher any signs of end time prophecy. I held off posting for a while, until I saw certain headlines and then went immediately to The Weather Channel's website, and saw Hurricane Michael developing, which I KNEW was going to develop into a monster storm BEFORE it struck the Florida panhandle, and you can go back to my original post on October 8th to see my prediction before that storm struck land.
I don't take these events lightly; they are very sobering, and I very much DREAD what is coming in the near future, if you know what I mean...
The spiritual promises belong only to The Elect; however, the natural land promises... still belong to the Jews of the Middle East, and I am watching the headlines so as to not be caught off guard by any forthcoming disasters, which WILL be coming upon this country.
Dean
John from Kentucky:
None of the Old Testament figures are all that important. Their stories are only for examples for the Elect.
In Galatians 3:16 we learn Isaac is unimportant. Jesus is the One Seed and heir of all the Promises. It is Jesus Who will save all the nation's. Save everyone.
Later in chapter 3, we learn there are no divisions between Jew or Gentile, Male or Female, Free or Slave, we are all One in Christ Jesus and heir of all the Promises through Jesus. It is the Elect who are the Israel of God.
The physical is not important. Only Spiritual Truths matter.
Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit says the LORD GOD Almighty. Zech.
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