> General Discussions
Did God Ever Experience Anything Bad?
Joel:
Jesus made a statement that came to my mind here;
John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father has worked [even] until now.- He has never ceased working, He is still working - and I too must be at [divine] work. Amplified Bible.
Joel
cjwood:
Therefore whatever words are applied to us, when they are applied to Him it’s infinitesimally more greater and more profound. Agreed? [Yes] Okay.
The word there “brought forth” is H2342 chûl (khool, kheel) A primitive root; properly to twist or to dance (in some contexts, but there is only one application of it), to writhe in pain…
Not just to hurt… you know ‘writhing’ in pain, when you can’t even think straight.
- bear, bring forth, calve, great, grieve, grievous, be in pain, sore, sorrow, travail (with pain).
Those are powerful words aren’t they. If you went through all that you would think you were in childbirth. Guess what this word means here, “I was brought forth”? Travailed - birthed. Can this mean what it says?
He travailed with pain and agony, until wisdom was birthed out of Him, so that He could now build the universe. It says so! Well you can say, ‘I don’t see it.’ I don’t care, this wisdom was with Him before the heavens and the earth, it was with Him. But where did it come from? He birthed it with great pain, travail and sorrow. It was difficult for God! So don’t think that God hasn’t done anything for us.
After rereading the transcript, and listening again to Ray's conference video about, did God ever do an honest day's work in His life it becomes very clear that in "bringing forth" wisdom God, the Master Creator did experience travail and long suffering, much as a woman does in her labor when the time has come to deliver her child. Perhaps that IS the why, and how God could, and would create woman to bring forth children. By His own experience with wisdom before He even created Eve (or anything else). The more we learn by God's Spirit, the more there is to learn. And He never disappoints.
All praise and glory to God the Father, and His Son Jesus Christ.
claudia
Dennis Vogel:
--- Quote from: indianabob on October 29, 2018, 10:25:47 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dennis Vogel on October 29, 2018, 04:23:23 PM ---
--- Quote from: indianabob on October 29, 2018, 02:38:09 PM ---but the implementation of the plan did not require testing or trying a variety of ideas to see what would work or what was best to accomplish God's purpose. If God thought of something in the first instance, then it was going to work as thought of, because God could invent/create what ever was required to do so.
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You don't know that for a fact - You make it sound like it was all very easy for God. He had a perfect thought and it just happened. No effort, no thought process. It just happened.
You need to watch the video Bob.
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We want to believe that God is so much superior to any idea that mankind could conceive, so why cannot God be able to create by fiat, by thinking the thought or saying the word, rather than after much struggle over long periods of time, time as it applies to God not to humans? Does having to struggle to fulfill a concept make the result more valuable? Not for God. All is of God in the final analysis.
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Why are you arguing against points Ray proved in the video with the scriptures? Do I need to remake every point Ray makes in the video in a post?
You have not watched the video yet, have you? Too stubborn?
--- Quote ---Question: what is so strange about God having the power to create "easily"?
Is it because God is so patient and long suffering toward us?
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You make it sound like creating certain things was easy for God. Perhaps. But the entire creation was difficult for God. Watch the video and learn.
--- Quote ---I view God as able to watch us sinning against one another as a parent observing his own children wrestling or fighting over a toy or any other selfish attitude. Why should God be overly concerned to see children behaving as they were designed to behave and having to learn through physical pain or even death that there is a much better way and that only God can provide it, when God is ready so to do.
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Your views are meaningless if you cannot back them up with chapter and verse.
Where in the video does Ray say God is overly concerned? But your words imply God does not care which implies God does not love.
Gal 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
So did God just wish these attributes on Himself? But we have to suffer to learn them?
Where did God learn patience and longsuffering? Just something He always had? If so, then why do we have to learn it with much difficulty?
--- Quote ---God taught the first parents to avoid the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, but God knew they would disobey and expected it, otherwise why put Satan in the garden to tempt eve?
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God did not teach the first parents anything. He instructed them which is not the same thing as teaching and learning. Everyone has to learn about good and evil. And where does it say Adam and Eve were the first parents?
--- Quote ---We are not put here to learn to be perfect as God is perfect; that is impossible. Rather we are here to learn that God alone can make us perfect and only at a time that God decides it is best; after the lord Jesus is ruling on the earth.
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So we should just go about our business and make no effort to be good/perfect?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
You're saying all we have to do is learn that only God can make us perfect? That's it? No effort?
Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
So I guess the Ten Commandments are out as well as much of the New Testament's teachings? Just learn that only God can make us perfect?
Dennis Vogel:
--- Quote from: indianabob on October 29, 2018, 10:39:56 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dennis Vogel on October 29, 2018, 04:38:24 PM ---
--- Quote from: indianabob on October 29, 2018, 02:38:09 PM ---Since God made the sun out of matter that God created in the first place then making animals and people was just a more interesting and wonderful development of the use of that same matter. It's atoms and electrons all the way..., ;) but that is just what we have named it, God may have a better description to share with us someday in the distant future.
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Angles are spirit and have no matter. Are they just afterthoughts?
When it comes to humans it's not 'electrons all the way'. It's God's spirit in us that makes us human and worthy of God's attention.
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--- Quote ---True, angels are not flesh and blood, but we don't even have a definition for "spirit" other than invisible like breath.
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We don't have a definition for 'spirit'?
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
And what else is God?
1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
We can describe light, but to this day we don't know what light is because it's both particle and a wave. But it's still very important.
--- Quote ---We just know spirit by its power in the physical realm, yes, no?
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Not exclusively - The spirit God puts in us is not physical and the work it does in us is not physical. Love is not physical but it can result in physical actions.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Wanting to walk in God's statutes is spiritual, not physical, but can result in physical actions.
--- Quote ---Also, I don't believe that we are "worthy" of God's attention. Any attention we get from God is due to God's desire to work with us for God's own purposes and not for any worthiness of our own. We are just the dust, the clay that God is molding into whatever form or finished product that God desires.
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Words have meaning Bob. To say we are not worthy of God's attention is treading on dangerous ground.
Would you say a pregnant woman's baby is not worthy of attention? Are we not in the womb now?
Psa 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth
For whom were the heavens declared? To impress the angles who have no need for anything physical? Perhaps we are worthy?
Wanda:
This is from the transcript - Who and What is Jesus
https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,4472.0.html
Isa 53:5 ‘But He was wounded for our transgressions, crushed for our iniquities; upon Him was the punishment that made us whole, and by His bruises we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have all turned to our own way, and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.”
So not only did He have to carry all of our sins and shortcomings and everything else to the cross. But all His life He carried the pain, the sickness, the disease and the infirmaries in His body. Why? Because God is not going to put us through something that He is not willing to go through Himself! That’s why we follow in His footsteps, see. Now you have to understand in the same way that God spoke through Christ, every time He opened His mouth and God healed people, every time Christ said stand up or walk or whatever, the Father was doing it! In the same way, the Father is suffering through His Son.
So God was suffering through His Son. What is this all about? Is this more of this bizarre stuff? What is this all about? Here is the Son of Man, all filled with diseases, sicknesses, infirmaries and all of that. He put the iniquities of us all on Him
Isa 53:10 Yet it was the will of the Lord to crush Him with pain. When You(the Lord) make His life an Offering for sin,
So why all this stuff? Why couldn’t Jesus Christ have been this gorgeous, handsome looking young man? Why was He somebody who was on the verge of ugly, diseased, and sick, bent over in pain and misery? FOR US!
I don’t think the church gets it. I don’t think Christianity knows what’s going on.
I don’t know what God went through, and some people will call me a heretic for that, but I really don’t care, it’s just something I feel in my spirit. That God knows evil and good, first hand, some how. His Son was not the first to suffer evil, I believe that happened, some how. Now you will say, how? Where? Well He had a knowledge of good and evil before there was a creation, He had that. Where did He get it? He got it from somewhere.
Amen
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