> General Discussions

Why Did Jesus think His Father had left Him?

<< < (3/7) > >>

Wanda:

--- Quote ---Jesus, being crucified, identifies Himself as the Messiah in His usual way with the religious of His day--with just a snippet of Spiritual words to be Spiritually discerned.  They clearly had no clue what He was aiming at.  Even among some "universalists", spiritual understanding of His statement is lacking.  The rest of the 22nd Psalm is what those who knew it should have discerned from his statement, if they had had the Spiritual mind.
--- End quote ---

Matt 27

41 In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him. 42 “He saved others,” they said, “but he can’t save himself! He’s the king of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him.43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, ‘I am the Son of God.’”

Yet we see in Psalm 22: 11-19 
David  is undeterred by the jeers of his enemies, as is Jesus while on the cross. Which is obvious by his continued prayer to his Father,  to the end of His life (Luke 23:46).

indianabob:
Just a little snippet here to try to address the thoughts offered.

When we are called to faith, to believe, we are given an "earnest" of the faith that Jesus had. That could be just like a down payment from the Father to get our attention. A promise of things to come. Then as we exercise that little bit of faith it grows and matures and becomes more reassuring to each of us. With some it seems to grow quickly and with others it takes years due to their personal circumstances AND due to God's time table for each person.

In the instance of Jesus, who was conceived in faith and had the holy spirit of God from conception all the while he was developing as a young man there was a distinct difference. Jesus was the only begotten son of God.
We on the other hand are the "adopted sons of God" the children of promise and members of Jesus' body.


So then my supposition is that Jesus, who's faith saves us, had to have perfect faith in his Father's love. That is the reason that we all will be saved and are saved by Jesus' faith and not by our own.
Do we imagine that Jesus could have endured so great affliction without the full faith in God's word to resurrect him?

I feel safe in saying that NONE of us have or will ever have while mortal, the faith required for salvation, but we can have eventually the faith to believe that God, through the faith of His only begotten son, will save us. And yet even that much faith comes only as a free gift of God in God's own timing.
=
In my own situation I feel confident in saying that I am comfortable with my fate. I don't know how much I may have to suffer before I die and I may cry out in pain or from loss of a loved one, but I don't fear death the way I once did.
Now I can welcome it... :)

= =
2Co 5:1  For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 
2Co 5:2  For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 
2Co 5:3  If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 
2Co 5:4  For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 
2Co 5:5  Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 
2Co 5:6  Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 
2Co 5:7  (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 
2Co 5:8  We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 
2Co 5:9  Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 

= = =
1Co 15:35  But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 
1Co 15:36  Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 
1Co 15:37  And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 
1Co 15:38  But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 
1Co 15:39  All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 
1Co 15:40  There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 
1Co 15:41  There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 
1Co 15:42  So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 
1Co 15:43  It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 
1Co 15:44  It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 
1Co 15:45  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 
1Co 15:46  Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 
1Co 15:47  The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 
1Co 15:48  As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 
1Co 15:49  And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 
Mystery and Victory
1Co 15:50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 
1Co 15:51  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 
1Co 15:52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 
1Co 15:53  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 
1Co 15:54  So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 
1Co 15:55  O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 
1Co 15:56  The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 
1Co 15:57  But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 
1Co 15:58  Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord. 

Prune Soleiado:
God never abandons His children. It's rather us that would abandon Him, like the lost son, but Always is Our Father Calling us back by His grace.
I would say that it's truely a shocking thing to hear Jesus asking this question "Why did you abandon me?", but we know, of course, He never doubted then that His beloved Father was with Him every second of this quite painful moment. Jesus is perfect as God is perfect.
I have identified myself in this question some times, when fear had taken over me, for yes there are still moments of weakness when I fear my small boat would be shipwrecked...but then I turn my poor self to God's powerfull Word and everything become instantly calm again, with the insurance God never abandons me.
This is my battle. And maybe you, blessed ones, don't go through this kind of fight. May I remind I am yet a spiritual baby?
And the funny thing is I asked Our Heavenly Father few days before Rolihlahla posted this thread to give me a deeper understanding of this question Jesus asked Him on the cross (without forgetting the fact that the prophecy was to be fulfilled).
And there it is: God answers me through you, brothers and sisters, with all the wisdom He gave you by His grace. Wonderful! And thank you.

Prune Soleiado:
One question: have you noticed the verb tense in greek for "why HAVE you ABANDONED me" is AORIST tense?
Ray spoke about this aorist tense, particularly in the Lake Of Fire series. I found this in Lake 12:
"Now then, did God plan to call these sons? Did He have it all worked out in advance? Is there any chance of failure in bringing these Sons to glory? Let's read it:
For whom He [GOD] did FOREKNOW, He also did PREDESTINATE to be conformed to THE IMAGE [Remember Gen. 1:26- "Let us make man in OUR IMAGE..."] of HIS SON, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He did PREDESTINATE, them He also CALLED; and whom He called, them He also JUSTIFIED: and whom He justified, them He also GLORIFIED" (Rom. 8:29-30).
It should be noted that the verbs in this verse are in the Greek aorist tense and should more properly be translated, PREDESTINATES, CALLS, JUSTIFIES, AND GLORIFIES. This is not a past and completed act only, but a continuous process into the future."
And further in this Lake 12, Ray tells this:
"Creating man in God's image:
King James Version : "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness... So God creat ed man in His own image, in the image of God creat ed He him; make and female creat ed He them" (Gen. 1:26a & 27).
Concordant Version : "And saying is the Alueim [Hebrew: elohiym, gods or used of the supreme God--plural of elowahh, a deity or the Deity] , Make will We humanity in Our image, and according to Our likeness... And creat ing is the Alueim humanity in His image. In the Image of the Alueim He create s it. Male and female He create s them" (Gen. 1:26a & 27).
So we see here the same thing we have already discussed with regards to the Greek aorist tense of verbs, as in "For God so lov ED the world" versus "For thus God lovES the world." God's love for the world CONTINUES! And creat ing man in God's image also CONTINUES!"

So it seems like, when we read Matthew 27:46 "My God, my God, why have you forsaken" we should instead read:"Why ARE you FORSAKING me" if it is a continuing process?
But this abandonment by God, could it be a continuing process for the old man Inside of us, the beast that must be destroyed, the carnality that must perish?

indianabob:
Thank you Michelle for the replies to our efforts to help.

One other explanation that comes to mind is as follows.
In a more human context consider the feelings of a father of a little boy who
could save a whole nation from destruction by yielding his only son to an enemy.

When Jesus was suffering for us, the Father who loves His son more than anything...
had to watch it take place and God being full of all power in the creation God had to turn
his back on or forsake His own first son in order that Jesus could actually die.

Because if Jesus had not died, for us, then all of God's plans were a failure and that could not happen.
Didn't Jesus know that about his Father? Surely Jesus did...!

Was it also a test for us to observe and record so as to come to believe that God would resurrect us??


I don't believe that Jesus was disappointed in his Father's plan to save humanity. Forsaking Jesus was necessary.
It was just that the statement had to be made publicly to emphasize the gravity of the act that God did to prove to doubtful mankind that God loved/loves us completely...

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page