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Mathematical Challenges to Darwin’s Theory of Evolution
Dennis Vogel:
--- Quote ---That’s interesting about that DNA scientist Dennis. Do you have his name so I can read more about it?
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I couldn't find the exact news story I saw on CNN but I did find a short video on CNN: https://youtu.be/w5bPbwkjKMM
"As the director of the Human Genome Project, I have led a consortium of scientists to read out the 3.1 billion letters of the human genome, our own DNA instruction book."
The scientist is Francis Collins and he is a big deal. Here he is talking to Bill Gates: https://youtu.be/hUylrQ35114 Google "Francis Collins" and you will find many articles about him.
You can search for "DNA" on YouTube and find many videos about the insane complexity of DNA. Much too complex to evolve by natural selection or any other means.
Couple "3.1 billion letters of the human genome" with why I started this topic ( https://youtu.be/noj4phMT9OE ) and it gets very hard to be a believer in evolution.
Dennis Vogel:
--- Quote ---Many of these fossils have been found, as my friend stated, whales with legs, horses with toes, dinosaurs with feathers.
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I looked up "whales with legs" and found https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-47822228
All this shows is one well-adapted animal designed for that age.
But where are the numerous in-between fossils? There are none that I can find.
Dave in Tenn:
--- Quote from: Loc on October 10, 2019, 06:58:37 PM ---Yes, I’m defending evolution. Evolution is largely misunderstood by it’s opponents. Let me be clear, I have no problem with evolution being proven false or true, I have no stake in the outcome. I’m interested in what is true. I’m not an expert on the topic, but I do wish to read more about it, both opponents and proponents. As it stands now, I see lots of convincing evidence for evolution, but I’m open to alternate explanations, as long as they come from a place of integrity.
As I said before, evolution is largely misunderstood, leading to a lot of the same arguments being used against it for the past several decades which have been debunked. Transitional fossils are a good example, which Dennis brought up. Many of these fossils have been found, as my friend stated, whales with legs, horses with toes, dinosaurs with feathers. Hox genes are very important for body plan evolution, as my friend stated. Hox genes are one answer to a lot of misunderstanding of evolutionary processes. Certainly a blade of grass can’t evolve a brain all of the sudden, but that’s not how evolution works.
All I wanted to do with my post was to provide facts as a counter to the points being raised by the men in the video. They bring up amino acid chains being very specific and if you change it a little, it won’t work, which is false. My friend cited a study (I can post the study if anyone is interested) in which researchers switched out important yeast genes for their human equivalents. Half of the yeast genes could be successfully switched out despite a genome-wide average similarity of only 32%. The point is you can mess up proteins a lot and they still work.
That’s interesting about that DNA scientist Dennis. Do you have his name so I can read more about it? I don’t doubt that DNA and biology as a whole are very complex. There is plenty that we don’t understand about how life works. Complexity doesn’t necessarily disprove anything, we just don’t understand how everything works.
Hi Indiana Bob, yes, I do understand that this topic is very technical and not everyone will immediately understand everything, or even be interested in it at all. It’s not something that can be learned in a day, just like one can’t understand all scripture in one day. I’m still learning myself. I wouldn’t mind discussing it further via PM if you wish. I don’t expect everyone to be interested in this subject and explore it further. I also don’t see it being very important scripturally, which is why I don’t mind if someone believes one way or the other about it. I’m much more interested in how all the Bible stories apply to us, learning the spiritual aspect of the law, learning about the prophets and the meaning of their prophecies, overcoming the flesh, learning that God rules and He is the potter, and there are vessels for honor and dishonor, etc. etc.
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I pretty much agree with every statement made. I'd only add that creation did not begin with plant and animal life. Nor did it spring out of nothing. "Evolution" provides reasonably workable explanations of how "the earth brought forth". The "Creationism" that I grew up with doesn't offer me anything but their own imaginations.
There is a line of thought in Natural Sciences that contends that, given the state of the earth and with enough time, life was inevitable. I don't know that that's "true", but it is comforting. I don't think that the rest of the physical universe is merely the stage for life, but is much more the physical reason for it. I think it all fits together, and (taken together) speaks of a God who isn't outside of "it", but that "it" is in Him. And that's where "science" (and religion) break down. Scripture, on the other hand, doesn't break down--only understandings of it.
This is an interesting lift from the article Loc linked to:
"Darwin is no Newton. Newton’s physics survived Einstein and will always survive, because it explains the cases that dominate all of space-time except for the extreme ends of the spectrum, at the very smallest and largest scales."
Perhaps when Natural Science can integrate the "extreme ends" into their understanding...
Wanda:
There is truth on both sides, but each is missing an essential component, the word of God. The creationists believe in God, but don't understand his word, and the Evolutionist consider his word a myth. Perhaps this thread will lead some to doing more critical thinking. I used to be opposed to anything relating to evolution until I had a better understanding of the creation account in Genesis, of how the earth brought forth, and continues to do so.
wat:
AwesomeSaviour, my friend is agnostic. Common ancestor is a generic term and doesn't refer to any one organism. It's a way of referring to a previous organism that links two or more later organisms. But I suspect you're asking that question from a certain angle, insinuating that God is our common ancestor, which I would agree with. I do like Dennis' term "common designer." I don't think it's mutually exclusive with evolution though.
I apologize in advance for the information bomb. I don't expect people to read all this, but skimming will provide some useful information.
Since Dennis looked up "whales with legs" and posted an article, I'll stick with whales. The evolution of whales is pretty well documented. Here's a short 2.5 minute video going over it. (I didn't realize at first, but the website is from a Christian perspective.)
https://biologos.org/resources/how-evolution-works-part-2
Here's a short article from Berkeley showing some helpful pictures of some transitional forms.
https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evograms_03
This wikipedia page has a lot of info on whale evolution showing many transitional forms and whale ancestors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_cetaceans
This is a long article but the more relevant info is at the beginning. It shows transitional forms of several animals, including whales. The article has an anti-creationist slant which may be off-putting to some, but ignore that and focus on the facts and fossils.
https://askepticalhuman.com/religion/2019/4/2/debunking-creationism-transitional-fossils-dont-exist
Its important to know that evolution doesn't happen in a direct line, it's much more like a tree with many branches. There seems to be a stigma among creationists about evolution, as if it detracts something from God and makes Him less amazing and powerful. Quite the opposite, I think. It makes God and his creation more amazing. He commands and it happens. "Let the earth bring forth living creatures" The phrase "according to their kinds" brings to mind a tree branching in many directions.
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