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Author Topic: Galations 2:2  (Read 332 times)

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robinriley

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Galations 2:2
« on: February 21, 2020, 09:04:23 PM »

Thank you Rene,

Thought it prudent to first bounce an example of the type of questions I'd like to post to your forum ... That is, I've no idea just what "No Teaching" actually means, as I'm thinking that any kind of open discussion, which may (or may not) result in a clearer understanding of the wording of a particular verse, could be construed by some (me for example) as a learning experience ... and would that not be a "teaching" of some sort?
But I ramble ... here's my example: As I posted you earlier, I've translated the Byzantine Greek Pauline epistles into my own English reading, but rightfully realize that I sometimes make mistakes, so I'm always on the lookout for ways and means of constantly improving the translations that I've compiled ...

The Concordant Literal New Testament (CLNT) reads Galatians 2:2 as follows:
     "Now I went up [in] accord [with a] revelation, and submitted to them the evangel       which I am heralding among the nations, yet       privately       to (. the) [those of] repute,        lest [some]how I should be racing or ran for naught."

The transliterated Greek is shown as follows ... I include this only to show the word order and in order to point out certain words:

    anebEn de kata apokalupsin kai anethemEn autois to euaggelion ho kErussO en tois ethnesin     kat idian de tois dokousin mEpOs eis kenon trechO E edramon

My expanded or  detailed versions of this presents each word, in syntax order, with its parsing/ declination, Strong's numbering, and a suggested English reading:
I had up-stepped {0305 V-2AAI-1S} yet {1161 CONJ} according-to {2596 PREP} to~a~from-cover-revealing {0602 N-ASF} and{2532 CONJ} myself~I had upwardly-set {0394 V-2AMI-1S} unto~same [ones] {0846 P-DPM} to~the [thing] {3588 T-ASN} to~a~well-message-evangel {2098 N-ASN} to~which~a [thing] {3739 R-ASN} I herald {2784 V-PAI-1S} among/ in {1722 PREP} unto~the [things] {3588 T-DPN} unto~nations {1484 N-DPN}*** according-to {2596 PREP} to~an~own [one] {2398 A-ASF} yet {1161 CONJ} unto~the [ones] {3588 T-DPM} unto~supposing {1380 V-PAP-DPM} no[t]-how-else {3381 CONJ-N} forí/ into {1519 PREP} to~an~empty/ to~a~naught [one] {2756 A-ASM} I should race {5143 V-PAS-1S} or {2228 PRT} I had raced {5143 V-2AAI-1S}

My reading of the above is ...
2:2* Yet, according-to a~from-cover-revelation I had up-stepped, and to~the well-message-evangel (which~an [evangel] I herald among with~the nations), myself~I had upwardly-set unto~same [ones], unto~the [ones] supposing, *** yet according-to [my] own [revelation], no[t]-how-else forí naught I should race, or I had raced.

So now, here's the question ...where the CLNT, as well as most other translations I've checked, reads ..."kat idian" ... as ..."privately" ...my reading of these words, in a concordantly consistent manner, would have this say ..."according-to [my] own" ...

It's claimed that this ..."privately"... reading is to show that this meeting was Paul meeting privately with only three or four of the top leaders,and yet Acts 15:6 clearly says ..."Now the apostles and the elders were gathered to see about this matter" ... Not exactly a private meeting.

The Greek ..."kat idian"... according-to {2596 PREP} to~an~own [one] {2398 A-ASF}is enhanced with the added "[my]" ... and since the stand-alone adjective is singular feminine, I've gone back in the verse to see just what this is suppose to modify, and found that it matches "revelation" (or more specifically, "a~from-cover-revelation") ...

There are, of course, other verses in the NT where "kat idian" is read as "privately" ... but I've found that these verses can just as well be read as ..."according-to [my] own" ... so that's not a telling argument.

What I suspect is the telling argument, is this very verse (Gal 2:2), where it starts out with ..."yet according-to a revelation" ...That is, the two "yet according-to" introductory phrases are to intended to point specifically to Paul's own, unique evangel revelation.
Yet, according-to a~from-cover-revelation ...

I had up-stepped, and to~the well-message-evangel (which~an [evangel] I herald among with~the nations), myself~I had upwardly-set unto~same [ones], unto~the [ones] supposing;
yet according-to [my] own [from-cover-revelation],
no[t]-how-else forí naught I should race, or I had raced.

There you have it ... the standard reading (among most, if not all translations), and a consistently concordant reading, which not only is word consistent but clearly matches with what Luke says in Acts.  That is, this meeting may well have been one held with only a score or more important members, but that in no way means that we have to not treat the scriptural words non-concordantly, just to fit a priorly-assumed meaning ....

Or ... where am I getting off-track with this, my translation?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 09:21:25 PM by robinriley »
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Galations 2:2
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2020, 06:25:51 AM »

I think "privately" is joined to "communicated".  G394 ἀνατίθεμαι anatithemai.  It doesn't matter how many people were involved in the "meeting".  What matters is that it included PAUL and the LEADERSHIP, and not PAUL and the entire congregation.  The "going up" was by "revelation", that is. it was revealed to Paul (and not for the first or last time regarding this or that place) to go up and to Jerusalem.

...Or ... where am I getting off-track with this, my translation?

One way may be that your translation is not in understandable English.  These are the hazards when translating.

You've also uncovered another hazard.  Simple words have broad application (and sometimes even broad definition).   It's not always wisdom to imbue these small and simple words with more power than they deserve.  Dennis posted a video on YouTube recently where Ray talks about the use of "all" in Scripture not necessarily just by translation to mean "all".  The real power of those scriptural statements is not in bible-dictionaries but in concordant FAITH.

The NO TEACHING rule you alluded to concerns the primary reason this forum exists.  It is a haven for people who believe (broadly at least) the things/lessons taught by Ray Smith.  Top of the list (though other things are covered if only in passing) is the eventual salvation of all, and the sovereignty of God.  It's not a full-on bible discussion group, though other things are not strictly off-limits.  TEACHING is defined and recognized when we see it.

On this verse in particular:  I am aware that there is (at best) difference of opinion on topics that this verse is sometimes used to "proof text".  The "two gospels", "two administrations" etc track that some follow to one degree or another was NOT one that Ray had respect for.  So care will be taken not to let theological arguments that don't belong here take root here.  Beyond that, I hope whatever we are able to contribute will help in your understanding.  Welcome to the forum.

« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 11:53:06 AM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Rene

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Re: Galations 2:2
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2020, 03:14:27 PM »


Thought it prudent to first bounce an example of the type of questions I'd like to post to your forum ... That is, I've no idea just what "No Teaching" actually means, as I'm thinking that any kind of open discussion, which may (or may not) result in a clearer understanding of the wording of a particular verse, could be construed by some (me for example) as a learning experience ... and would that not be a "teaching" of some sort?
But I ramble ... here's my example: As I posted you earlier, I've translated the Byzantine Greek Pauline epistles into my own English reading, but rightfully realize that I sometimes make mistakes, so I'm always on the lookout for ways and means of constantly improving the translations that I've compiled ...


Hi Robin,

I understand that the NO TEACHING rule may seem subjective, but nevertheless, it is a necessary rule.  As Dave stated above, "teaching" is defined when the Moderators identify it as being so.  This forum has been in existence for over 15 years and experience has taught us the best practices for maintaining a civil and respectful environment.

As such, please reread this portion of the Forum Rules CAREFULLY to determine if this forum is the right fit for you.


THE IMPORTANT STUFF:

This forum and how it is moderated is different than most all religious based forums on the internet.

If you are considering joining this forum before reading and studying http://bible-truths.com, please reconsider.
It's best to all involved if you take the time to familiarize yourself with the teaching of L.Ray Smith first.

This forum is primarily a place for people of a like mind to fellowship, and secondarily to discuss and question what they learn on bible-truths.com.

This is not the place to decide if you agree with the teaching of L.Ray Smith, but a place you can retreat to when you do.

If you seriously disagree with Ray, the members may be able to help you with understanding, but debate will not be tolerated.

If you come here to teach us, please take your teaching elsewhere.

THIS FORUM IS NOT TO BE USED TO DEBATE RELIGIOUS TOPICS
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