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Author Topic: Pray for the world VS not praying for world  (Read 1414 times)

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Rolihlahla

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Pray for the world VS not praying for world
« on: March 30, 2020, 10:12:13 AM »

Thoughts anybody?

Christ didn't pray for the world.
Paul admonished we pray for the world.
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“You offer assistance to the impious, and you are joined in friendship with those who hate the Lord. And for this reason, you certainly deserve the wrath of the Lord."

Joel

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Re: Pray for the world VS not praying for world
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2020, 01:45:51 PM »

I suggest listing all the instances you are referring to in the scriptures.

Joel
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Rolihlahla

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Re: Pray for the world VS not praying for world
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2020, 03:12:00 PM »

1TIM 2
First of all, then, I urge you to offer to God petitions, prayers, intercessions, and expressions of thanks for all people,

 2  for kings, and for everyone who has authority, so that we might lead a quiet and peaceful life with all godliness and dignity.

 3  This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,

 4  who wants all people to be saved and to come to know the truth fully.

 5  There is one God. There is also one mediator between God and human beings—a human, the Messiah Jesus

VS

John 17

  “I am asking on their behalf. I am not asking on behalf of the world, but on behalf of those you gave me, because they are yours. perm_identity

 10  All that is mine is yours, and what is yours is mine, and I have been glorified through them. xref-1 perm_identity

 11  I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by your Name, the Name that you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one
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“You offer assistance to the impious, and you are joined in friendship with those who hate the Lord. And for this reason, you certainly deserve the wrath of the Lord."

Dave in Tenn

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Re: Pray for the world VS not praying for world
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2020, 03:32:37 PM »

What was Jesus asking on behalf of His disciples that He wasn't asking on behalf of the world?
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Rocco

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Re: Pray for the world VS not praying for world
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2020, 03:40:03 PM »

prayer for the many is different than prayer for the few. One is for civil peace the other is for unity in the spirit
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Rolihlahla

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Re: Pray for the world VS not praying for world
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2020, 06:32:57 PM »

What was Jesus asking on behalf of His disciples that He wasn't asking on behalf of the world?

To be protected in the Father's name.He didn't pray the world be protected in the Father's name.
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“You offer assistance to the impious, and you are joined in friendship with those who hate the Lord. And for this reason, you certainly deserve the wrath of the Lord."

octoberose

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Re: Pray for the world VS not praying for world
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2020, 02:01:02 AM »

Well, also in chapter 17 Jesus  says this -

I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me. 24

Isn’t he praying for a testimony to the world ?
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Rolihlahla

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Re: Pray for the world VS not praying for world
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2020, 08:46:11 AM »

I see a couple of prayers currently,for the world,and I wondered if God will hear these?
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“You offer assistance to the impious, and you are joined in friendship with those who hate the Lord. And for this reason, you certainly deserve the wrath of the Lord."

Dave in Tenn

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Re: Pray for the world VS not praying for world
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2020, 08:00:24 PM »

I think it's overstating it to say Jesus did not pray for the world--full stop.  He loved the world and died for the world, sure.  But He never prayed for the world?  He says here that he is not praying for the world what He is praying for the disciples.  Nor do I think He made the kind of bland cover-all-the-bases prayers like we are wont to do.  Even Paul's admonition here concerning prayer for the world is for the benefit of the disciples living in the world.  I also think the prayers of Jesus were prayed and recorded as having been prayed for the benefit of the disciples.

Does God hear prayers made for the world?  He is the Living God.  There is nothing that escapes His notice.  Prayer, however, does not change God's intention, will, or plan.  To pray for the world according to His will (not ours) is the prayer of faith--His faith.  Pray whatever you like.  It says more about "you" than it does about Him.  And when (assuming the prayer is made according to His will) it is answered, all glory goes to Him--because if you prayed, it is only because you were "caused" to pray.  Paul was "caused" to write his admonition.  So pray.  Or don't.   

All things are made by Him and without Him there is nothing.   
« Last Edit: April 02, 2020, 08:10:10 PM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Rolihlahla

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Re: Pray for the world VS not praying for world
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2020, 09:38:21 AM »


"It has always been interesting to me every since I have known about the Sovereignty of God. You hear about praying for world peace, we need to have a day of prayer and pray for world peace. In other words pray that God is a liar, is that what you are saying? Pray that all of His prophesy are nothing but a crock of lies. He said this is the way that it’s going to be. Are we to pray, ‘no Lord I don’t want Your will to be done or Your intention?’ It’s God’s intention that not only those that He is calling are humbled, He going to humble the whole world." L.Ray Smith
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“You offer assistance to the impious, and you are joined in friendship with those who hate the Lord. And for this reason, you certainly deserve the wrath of the Lord."

Heidi

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Re: Pray for the world VS not praying for world
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2020, 06:43:19 PM »

From Ray's "Praying by Gods rule"

SEVEN SCRIPTURAL PRINCIPLES GOVERNING PRAYER

[1] "And this is the confidence that we have in Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, [everything in heaven and earth must be in accord with God's will {His purpose and plan, Eph. 1:11} or it won't happen] He hears us: And if we know that He hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of Him" (I John 5:14-15).

[2] "Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, [I cannot stress enough the importance of a clean and clear conscience] then have we confidence toward God. And whatsoever we ask, we receive of Him, because we...

[3] keep His commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in His sight...

[4] And this is His commandment, That we should believe on the Name [and everything that that Name stands for and represents] of His Son Jesus Christ...

[5] And love one another, as He gave us commandment" (I John 3:21-23).

[6] "Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts [so don't think that it's okay to pray for your Mother to hit the Lotto Jackpot either, as I believe that God can see through such feigned benevolence] " (James 4:3) .

[7] "And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing [Having faith and trust, not just hoping and wishing. True faith can be based only on God's Word-see James 1:6-7] ye shall receive" (Matt. 21:22).

All seven of these principles are in keeping with "Thy will be done." We will now take a close look at a Scripture that cannot be discerned from most translations."
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For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring"

Dave in Tenn

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Re: Pray for the world VS not praying for world
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2020, 04:15:53 AM »

Thanks, Heidi.  I think it was in the rest of that paper that I was alluding to, that prayer was more than just words directed towards God.  That prayer is "unceasing.  Could someone please post a link to that paper?  I'm on my phone and can't do it.

Praying "for world peace" in this age and by the "citizens" of this age is not praying according to His will.  I would contend though that even this broad "cover all the bases" prayer by those who believe WILL be answered.  He is the Prince of Peace, and of the increase of His government and of peace there shall be no end.  "We" will receive what we ask for, believing.  Much has to happen before that answer comes, but it will come.  So be it.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2020, 04:43:38 AM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Rene

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Re: Pray for the world VS not praying for world
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2020, 01:37:36 PM »


Could someone please post a link to that paper?  I'm on my phone and can't do it.


PRAYING BY GOD'S RULES
https://bible-truths.com/praying.htm
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Rolihlahla

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Re: Pray for the world VS not praying for world
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2020, 05:38:44 PM »

The world peace prayers are really not based on the will of God.

The world just wants this pandemic to go away so that they can go back to their normal lives,which is not doing the will of God and seeking His face.
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ZekeSr

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Re: Pray for the world VS not praying for world
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2020, 12:02:20 PM »

There’s a saying that dates back to WWII which I always found interesting: "There are no atheists in foxholes."

A Quote from Ray’s “Praying By God’s Rules”:
“God has never made a mistake. God has never ever changed His mind. God has never been surprised by anything that anyone has ever done. God knows everything that will happen before it happens. And the only reason that God can do this is because God is Sovereign and man has no such thing as a "free will."

Very few people know the truth. So, my question is: Since free will is an illusion. If the prayers for the world are not according to God’s will, but still sincerely prayed according to what they know, is it safe to assume that those prayers are still a causation according to God’s plan... regardless of whether or not those prayers are answered in the fashion for which they hope?

Mike
« Last Edit: April 06, 2020, 02:31:21 PM by ZekeSr »
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Pray for the world VS not praying for world
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2020, 04:14:29 AM »

Mike, just me talking but I have pretty much stopped thinking of prayer as being the cause of anything happening... except that which happens to the one praying, maybe..  Some of the NT scripture that common understanding seems to say that it is the cause is pretty poorly translated.

I was taking a fresh look at the "beatitudes" in Matthew a few months back.  It jumped out at me reading all the words, that there was a blessedness for "they", and a blessedness for "you".  One in particular read, "Blessed are they that do hunger and thirst after righteousness (justice, goodness, equity), for they shall be filled.

"to them it is not given to know..." And if they listen to too many "preachers", what little they have will be taken away.  It's not always going to be that way, though..

I don't know if that answers your question, but that's my stab at it.

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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

ZekeSr

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Re: Pray for the world VS not praying for world
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2020, 10:15:36 AM »

Mike, just me talking but I have pretty much stopped thinking of prayer as being the cause of anything happening... except that which happens to the one praying, maybe..  Some of the NT scripture that common understanding seems to say that it is the cause is pretty poorly translated.

I was taking a fresh look at the "beatitudes" in Matthew a few months back.  It jumped out at me reading all the words, that there was a blessedness for "they", and a blessedness for "you".  One in particular read, "Blessed are they that do hunger and thirst after righteousness (justice, goodness, equity), for they shall be filled.

"to them it is not given to know..." And if they listen to too many "preachers", what little they have will be taken away.  It's not always going to be that way, though..

I don't know if that answers your question, but that's my stab at it.

Hi Dave,

I wasn't sure if I got my question across right, but your answer simplified things and it's very much what I was thinking (wondering). Thank you for the explanation. You did answer my question. :)

Mike
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