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Author Topic: Interesting / Coincidence?  (Read 1003 times)

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Dennis Vogel

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Interesting / Coincidence?
« on: October 11, 2020, 06:43:21 PM »

Rev 6:2  And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. 

From Google: What is the etymology of the coronavirus disease name?

The name "coronavirus" is derived from Latin corona, meaning "crown" or "wreath", itself a borrowing from Greek κορώνη korṓnē, "garland, wreath".

Coronavirusen.wikipedia.org › wiki › Coronavirus


Also from Google: Corona definition:  a part of the body resembling or likened to a crown.

I heard someone talking about the 1st Seal and making a connection between the Rev 6:2 'crown' and the corona-virus and I decided to see what Google gave as definitions.

I think it's interesting that 'corona' was borrowed from the Greek language which is used in the New Testament. And I think the entire world pronounces this virus as 'corona'.

Could Revelation's 1st seal be about an arrow that spreads the corona-virus around the world? Don't know. Just interesting for now.



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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Interesting / Coincidence?
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2020, 12:05:19 AM »

I'm leaning towards "coincidence" along the same lines of so many world leaders being deemed THE Antichrist because the letters of their names could be massaged to be 666.  And that's where I'll pause.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

ZekeSr

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Re: Interesting / Coincidence?
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2020, 09:30:52 AM »

I'm leaning towards "coincidence" along the same lines of so many world leaders being deemed THE Antichrist because the letters of their names could be massaged to be 666.  And that's where I'll pause.

I agree with Dave. Corona is a strain of viruses that even includes the common cold. My last name translates into Christmas, which means nothing beyond my ancestral background as does Trump's name. Personally, I think we should drop the subject before we have another locked thread.

Mike
« Last Edit: October 12, 2020, 10:27:32 AM by ZekeSr »
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Interesting / Coincidence?
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2020, 11:32:42 AM »

I agree - Nothing special.
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lareli

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Re: Interesting / Coincidence?
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2020, 04:57:41 PM »

Knowing that not one single atom has ever moved independent of Gods predetermined plan.. is there even a such thing as a coincidence?

Is it possible to believe in Gods plan as we do here and also believe in coincidence? Not saying that the ‘Coronavirus’ is ‘The first seal’ but I am saying that God is the One who authored it all and God surely won’t ever look at His plan and realize connections that He didn’t intend..
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Interesting / Coincidence?
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2020, 06:40:18 PM »

We don't know the timing of God's plan. We are simply told to watch and prepare.

Luk 12:46  The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luk 12:47  And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 

Mat 25:13  Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. 

Luk 21:36  Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. 
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Shawn from Georgia

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Re: Interesting / Coincidence?
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2020, 09:05:10 PM »

No coincidence. Everything about this 'pandemic' has been planned from the start
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Interesting / Coincidence?
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2020, 09:05:28 PM »

Knowing that not one single atom has ever moved independent of Gods predetermined plan.. is there even a such thing as a coincidence?

Is it possible to believe in Gods plan as we do here and also believe in coincidence? Not saying that the ‘Coronavirus’ is ‘The first seal’ but I am saying that God is the One who authored it all and God surely won’t ever look at His plan and realize connections that He didn’t intend..

We only get a view of His plans for the future when it actually happens.  "Coincidence" may not be the right word, but the fact that letters can be massaged to form 666 I've no doubt did not "escape God's attention".  How did that fit into His plan?  Look what happened. 

What had to be (must be) is what happened/happens.

************************

From LOF 8.  Was reading just a couple days ago.



REVELATION IS TO AND FOR THE SEVEN CHURCHES

The book of Revelation is to and for the Seven and Churches-First chapter:

"What you see write in a book and send it unto the seven churches"
(Rev. 1:11),

Last chapter:

"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches" (Rev. 22:16).

If you are a professing member of the Church that Jesus built, then you need to know what Jesus has prophesied concerning that very Church.

I don't mean to weary my readers by repeating myself, but I fear that no matter how many times I say something and quote Scriptures to prove it, there will still be many who will not have clue as to what God is teaching us.

The words that Jesus spoke were "spirit"-

"...the words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT..." (John 6:63).

Jesus taught the multitudes in parables only-

"All these things spoke Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spoke He not unto them" (Matt. 13:34).

All parables have a SPIRITUAL lesson. Not one of Jesus' parables was to be taken literally.

But to understand spiritual parables, and words of spirit, one must HAVE THE SPIRIT-

"...for the Spirit searches all things, yea, the deep things of God ... the things of God knows no man but the Spirit of God ... the Holy Spirit teaches; comparing spiritual things with spiritual ... But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned ... But we [believers in Christ] have the [spiritual] mind of Christ"
(I Cor. 2:10,11,13,14,16).

Notice what Jesus said when His disciples asked Him concerning the parables:

"And the disciples came, and said unto Him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given ... Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they UNDERSTAND" (Matt. 13:10,11, & 13).

Having "ears to hear" means having spiritual discernment in UNDERSTANDING what one hears. Notice that we must "...see with our eyes, and hear with our ears, and should understand with our HEART..." [then God would] convert us and HEAL [save] us (Matt. 13:15).

I have no doubt that some reading these messages from the Scriptures, are beginning to understand. I mean REALLY UNDERSTAND and thank God for this spiritual understanding. If you are such an one, then GOD IS CALLING YOU! You are beginning to "taste" of the good and spiritual things of God.

In Chapter 13 of Revelation God introduces us to, a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns with ten crown with the name of blasphemy, and another beast coming up out of the earth which had two horns like a lamb, but spoke as a dragon, commanding to make an image to the beast and caused all to receive a mark or name or number 666 in their forehead or right hand.

Midway through the chapter God says this: "If any man have an ear, LET HIM HEAR." What does God mean by "let him hear?" We just read it. Only those with God's Spirit can discern spiritual things, and the Book of Revelation is a book of Symbols, given by Jesus, who always speaks to the multitudes in parables, plus His words are always "spirit." "Let him hear" means let him SPIRITUALLY UNDERSTAND!

We already learned that "7" is a number of perfect completeness in God's Word. SEVEN TIMES Jesus says to the Seven Churches, "He that has an ear, LET HIM HEAR..." (Rev. 1:7, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22). Here is God's complete message to the Church down through the centuries. Those who have ears to hear [to understand] will understand the spiritual message to these churches.

MORE INSTRUCTIONS ON HAVING 'EARS TO HEAR'

Who specifically is speaking the words of Christ through John to these Seven Churches: Notice it, for it is most revealing: "He that has an ear, let him hear what THE SPIRIT says..." (Rev. 1:7). It is "the SPIRIT" which is speaking to John and the Seven Churches. How are we going to hear a "SPIRIT" if we don't have spiritual ears to hear?

I am overwhelmed by the arrogant ignorance of theologians who are constantly informing me that the "unquenchable fire," "furnace of fire," "gehenna fire," and "lake of fire" are physical, material, and literal! Parables, metaphors, allegories, and symbols are NEVER LITERAL! Try this: Jesus Christ (SPIRIT), gives John this Revelation which God (SPIRIT), gave and signified (symbolized-things with SPIRITUAL meanings), by an angel (a SPIRIT), while John was in the SPIRIT, and wrote Christ's words (which are SPIRIT), and were spoke by "the SPIRIT," in a book, that can only be understood by those with an "[spiritual] ear to hear." And theologians believe that most of this book of Revelation is literal?

The Spirit speaks to each church congregation individually, starting with Ephesus and ending with Laodicea. However, notice this: although the Spirit speaks individually to the various congregations, God informs each individual congregation to "...let him hear what the Spirit says unto churches [plural]." Herein is a most profound truth, which I have never heard anyone explain. God is saying, in effect, "Ephesus, here are your strong points and your weaknesses, but now it is also necessary that you hear what I have to say to THE REST OF THE CHURCHES!"

Why should Ephesus be concerned about the problems or virtues of the other churches? It is because what applies to one applies to ALL. Ephesus "left her first love." Are we so naive as to think that Pergamos followed the doctrine of Balaam, and the Nicolaitans, but did NOT leave their first love? Do we think that Laodicea was "luke warm," but did not leave her first love? Do we think that most of Sardis "art DEAD," but that they didn't leave their first love. Absurd! THEY ALL left their first love! But even "dead" Sardis "had a few names which did not defile their garments [spiritual character]." And thus ALL the congregations also had "a few names," not the majority, who had not defiled their garments.

Some think that Smyrna and Philadelphia had "no faults." I have a large chart that I purchased in a Bible Book Store that lists the seven churches on the top and then has categories underneath. For the category labeled "Faults," the boxes for Smyrna and Philadelphia, say: "NONE."

That's not true, the chart is wrong. The churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia were composed of many who "...say they are Jews [spiritually circumcised and converted in heart], but are not, but are the synagogue of Satan." I don't think that any church that has "the synagogue of SATAN" in their congregation could be said to have NO FAULTS!

 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

ZekeSr

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Re: Interesting / Coincidence?
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2020, 04:05:48 PM »

Knowing that not one single atom has ever moved independent of Gods predetermined plan.. is there even a such thing as a coincidence?

Is it possible to believe in Gods plan as we do here and also believe in coincidence? Not saying that the ‘Coronavirus’ is ‘The first seal’ but I am saying that God is the One who authored it all and God surely won’t ever look at His plan and realize connections that He didn’t intend..

We only get a view of His plans for the future when it actually happens.  "Coincidence" may not be the right word, but the fact that letters can be massaged to form 666 I've no doubt did not "escape God's attention".  How did that fit into His plan?  Look what happened. 

What had to be (must be) is what happened/happens.

************************

Agreed. We are who we are and we are where we are accordingly.

Isa_44:2  I am your Creator. You were in my care even before you were born. Israel, don't be terrified! You are my chosen servant, my very favorite.
Rev 13:8  The beast was worshiped by everyone whose name wasn't written before the time of creation in the book of the Lamb who was killed.
Rev 13:9  If you have ears, then listen!
Rev 13:10  If you are doomed to be captured, you will be captured. If you are doomed to be killed by a sword, you will be killed by a sword. This means that God's people must learn to endure and be faithful!
Luk 21:36  Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.


As a side note. While there is no telling how it goes in the future, this pandemic, so far, is mild compared to the 1918 Spanish flu.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDY5COg2P2c 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6R_eFCcVfM
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Arion

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Re: Interesting / Coincidence?
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2020, 05:17:42 PM »

There are myriads of corona viruses so it's not a new thing even though it was a 'novel' virus.  And although very virulent it has a sub 1% case fatality rate with current treatment.  So I don't think this is a candidate for one of the four horsemen and that is if Revelations is to be understood in a literal sense and I believe from Ray's teachings that very little in Revelation is literal.

YMMV
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lareli

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Re: Interesting / Coincidence?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2020, 11:19:35 AM »

Yes. The virus is not worthy of the resulting response to it. Locking down entire nations around the world is something I could fathom if an extinction level asteroid were headed for earth.. or perhaps if a verified alien invasion were to be expected.. but this virus (crown) is not worthy of the response that it has generated. Which makes it interesting.

But the verse doesn’t say that the crown (virus) is that which conquers. It just says “a crown was given unto him, a he went forth conquering..” it says that “he” conquers.. the crown perhaps gave him the authority to do the conquering but a crown itself is just a crown.

It is interesting that this relatively mild virus (crown) has given the worlds nations the unprecedented power to “conquer” the world order and flip it upside down. The fact that this virus has over %99 survivability rate only makes our situation that much more peculiar and interesting.

As far as the literalness of the scripture.. there is not literally a white horse with a literal man on it riding around the world with his bow and crown. To draw comparisons of what we are all experiencing and living though with the verse is not literal at all is it?

Are viruses spiritual? Are they physical? Won’t spiritual happenings have physical manifestations? I don’t know the answers to those questions. But I do know with certainty that God planned for a relatively mild virus to result in the shake up the entire world.

« Last Edit: October 14, 2020, 11:22:32 AM by lareli »
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Interesting / Coincidence?
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2020, 07:45:08 PM »

...and what else happened?

Sometimes I envy people who's eyes are only on the "big picture" (as they see it through their small window).  Surely it's more comforting than what I have to go through.  I couldn't handle a God's eye view of things, but there are an awfully lot of trees in the forest and every one of them has a separate history.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2020, 07:47:20 PM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

lareli

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Re: Interesting / Coincidence?
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2020, 12:14:56 PM »

...and what else happened?

Sometimes I envy people who's eyes are only on the "big picture" (as they see it through their small window).  Surely it's more comforting than what I have to go through.  I couldn't handle a God's eye view of things, but there are an awfully lot of trees in the forest and every one of them has a separate history.

To be fair, you don’t know if someone’s eyes are only on the big picture.

You should elaborate on what offended you so that whoever offended you can have the opportunity to clear it up, or at least be made aware of their offense.
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Interesting / Coincidence?
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2020, 08:35:10 AM »

My post followed yours, but was not specifically and wholly addressed to yours.    We're all wired differently, and sometimes I wish I was wired differently than I am.

*******

Did anybody read the entire portion of LoF that I excerpted, if you have not already?  That part about the stone with a name on it?  That's the pattern to follow.  But I garuntee there's a guy with a Bible out there making hay over what physical object the white stone "spiritually" represents.  And if there isn't, there will be.  That's just not the way spiritual understanding works.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

lareli

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Re: Interesting / Coincidence?
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2020, 11:41:46 AM »

My post followed yours, but was not specifically and wholly addressed to yours.    We're all wired differently, and sometimes I wish I was wired differently than I am.

*******

Did anybody read the entire portion of LoF that I excerpted, if you have not already?  That part about the stone with a name on it?  That's the pattern to follow.  But I garuntee there's a guy with a Bible out there making hay over what physical object the white stone "spiritually" represents.  And if there isn't, there will be.  That's just not the way spiritual understanding works.

You’re talking about the error of comparing spiritual things to physical things- which is why I ended my post asking if viruses are spiritual or physical.. I’ll add another question, what about emotions? Is fear spiritual? Has fear conquered most of the developed world.. and an unreasonable fear at that since it is a fear that has altered everyone’s lives and it’s inspired by a virus that has a less than %1 death rate?

How about the next seal in Rev 6:3,4

And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

I’ve noted in other threads how everyone is killing each other, spiritually speaking if you hate your brother than you are killing him, yes? Families, friends, strangers etc are killing each other over the politics of the virus or over politics in general.

Like someone said, you won’t understand a prophecy fulfilled until it passes. How long after it passes though? Because these things have passed already haven’t they?

Please know that I don’t take any of this so seriously that I intend to rub anyone the wrong way, and out of consideration for the rest I’ll stop after this post. But as the title of the thread says “interesting/coincidence” I only mean to be interested in a very lighthearted or even a fun way. I never want to take something to be so serious that I forget that it really doesn’t matter. But at the same time it all matters. But the end of my/our story is already written and nothing I do, say, think, or know, can change that. Just lighthearted thoughts being shared among similar minds.

Forgive me if I get it wrong but Ray said in one of ‘The beast’ papers that “that there is a beast out there in the world, I have no doubt. But of what concern is that to me? I’m more concerned with the beast in me!” I’m paraphrasing from memory but it was something like that. I feel the same way about everything in Rev. How Rev pertains to me inwardly is of more value than how Rev or if Rev manifests in the world. It’s just for fun conversation.. we’re all gonna die in the end anyway... and then live again!

« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 12:23:16 PM by lareli »
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