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Hi folks and Dennis,

I have to wonder what concerns us about having this mark in our head or hand.
What is it that we lose or gain because of the mark and why should we object?
Is it about keeping a job or having our conduct exposed to public view?

Indiana Bob

I don't think the mark has anything to do with the money/currency system.

There are some moneyless communities all over the world, they don't care what currencies the world is using. Also, the word "sell" (4453. půleů) doesn't necessarily have to involve money, it also means "to exchange or barter".

Who will receive the mark? (pay attention to the words in Rev 13:16)

All, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond

I am sure there are billions of people in the world who are too poor and have zero money to buy and nothing to sell. And when it says "bond", I think of the hundreds of thousands of Uyghurs enslaved in the concentration camps in China. For them, what's the point of receiving the mark? Mark or no mark, they can't even get out of the camps anyway.

And who will NOT receive the mark?

Rev 20:4 And I saw high seats, and they were seated on them, and the right of judging was given to them: and I saw the souls of those who were put to death for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and those who did not give worship to the beast, or to his image, and had not his mark on their brows or on their hands; and they were living and ruling with Christ a thousand years.

I just think "no man might buy and sell" is not the key point of Rev 13:17, it mainly tells us we are all beast that's it.

Dennis Vogel:
All good points zvezda


The American Heritage Dictionary, p. 1335, spiritual adj. 1. Of, relating in, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; NOT TANGIBLE OR MATERIAL.

Strong's Greek Dictionary of the New Testament, "spiritual" #4152, pneumatkos, "Pneumatkos ALWAYS connotes the ideas of INVISIBILITY and of POWER" p. 205. (All CAPS are mine).


That's right: the lake of fire is spiritual and therefore invisible. No one will ever SEE the lake of fire; just as no one will ever SEE God's Spirit; and just as no one will ever SEE God's "consuming fire" (Heb. 12:29). But make no mistake about it; the lake of fire is REAL, and it is very HOT, and it BURNS things, and its effects are ETERNAL-all, of course, SPIRITUALLY SPEAKING.

Let us not forget that this is spiritual,and has nothing to do with money or physical things.

Lets focus and not get side tracked by what is happening in the world.

With all due respect, this discussion sounds more like what I see from the orthodox crowd, who try to find similarities between worldly events and scripture from Revelation. 

I was becoming entangled for a time with all that is going on in the world and itís the last thing I wish to discuss here in the forums. Why not instead have a discussion and further studies on spiritual things?  That would be a much better usage of the short time we have left.

The Book of Revelation is a spiritual book.  The words of Jesus Christ are spiritual. The beast, the mark, itís all spiritual. Thatís what the Bible teaches and that is what Ray taught.

We need to be very careful or we might end up in a bad place.

Mark 4:19
19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

2 Peter 2:20
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Revelation 3:11
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

 Proverbs 23:23
23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

Proverbs 3:3-4
3 Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart:

4 So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man.


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