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Dennis Vogel:
With all due respect we are told to watch and pray:
Luk 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Mzantsi:
--- Quote from: ralph on March 21, 2023, 02:40:16 AM ---With all due respect, this discussion sounds more like what I see from the orthodox crowd, who try to find similarities between worldly events and scripture from Revelation.
I was becoming entangled for a time with all that is going on in the world and it’s the last thing I wish to discuss here in the forums. Why not instead have a discussion and further studies on spiritual things? That would be a much better usage of the short time we have left.
The Book of Revelation is a spiritual book. The words of Jesus Christ are spiritual. The beast, the mark, it’s all spiritual. That’s what the Bible teaches and that is what Ray taught.
We need to be very careful or we might end up in a bad place.
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Good points. This discussion is forgetting the basics. The likes of Mike Maloney will deceive one into focusing on the physical instead of the spiritual. Ray explained that spiritual means invisible,so the mark,beast and its name ARE ALL INVISIBLE!
Extol:
I disagree with those who state "it is all spiritual"....though I understand that view, having held it for a decade after being introduced to Ray's writings. Eventually I realized it was just a nice excuse for me to be lazy rather than dig in to the Bible and study it. If there's something I didn't understand, well, "it's all spiritual." Problem solved.
The prophets all wrote about things that historically happened (or will happen). Especially notable in this regard is Daniel, whose predictions of real, historical events were so accurate that the higher critics believed they must have been written after the fact. Revelation is a continuation of Daniel. The beast kingdoms Daniel saw in his vision went only as far as Rome, but Revelation takes it further. The Bible, from Genesis onward, even into the New Testament with the Gospels and Acts, speaks of real, historical events--it would be very odd, then, if at the end it changes to nothing physical or literal, all spiritual.
God rules over history; as Nebuchadnezzar said, "the Most High is ruler in the kingdom of men, and to whom He willeth He giveth it, and the lowest of men He doth raise up over it" (Dan. 4:17). Like Ray said when talking about Esther, you don't find God's name anywhere in the book...but you see His hand everywhere. "It's all spiritual" detaches us--and God--from this fact.
There is a lot happening in the world--and there are clues in the Bible--that indicate we are very near to witnessing the return of the King; but you have to have your eyes open to see it. You don't have to be interested in politics or economics, but I think it's ignorant to say what's going on in the world has nothing to do with the plan of God.
The Kingdom of God is going to come to this literal earth, and there will be literal people on it. Too much talk of "it's all spiritual" diminishes the realness of what is to come. It makes it sound like we are going to be nebulous spirit beings floating around doing who knows what.
Musterseed:
Truth # 1…. The sequence of God’s plan of salvation for mankind is
most important. First is the PHYSICAL and then comes the SPIRITUAL
Making mankind into God’s own image is a process that involves a lifetime
of trials and tribulations that includes the crucifying of the carnal human mind
and body.
Ray said” man is not a spirit being having a physical experience, but rather man is
a physical being having a spiritual experience.
I agree Jessie, I used to be an ostrich.
Dave in Tenn:
A welcome to our new members and posters.
"Spiritual" is what IS "real". Everything else is temporary. "Spiritual" is not "imaginary" or "symbolic". "Spiritual" is what is fundamental and universal, no matter who, when, or where He has placed us. The Revelation of Jesus Christ (who is the SPIRIT of Prophecy) is and has been and will be intended for every believer in all generations who have Spiritual Eyes and Ears.
As much as I have hope and evidence that His Elect are "coming out of" the Great Whore and her "daughters" of Catholicism, and Orthodoxism, and Lutheranism, and Calvinism, and all the other daughters of Protestantism--Methodism, and Evangelicalism, and Pentacostalism, and all the other -isms and tangles and influences, and reactions, and schisms and Ecumenicalisms: I have hope that His elect are coming out of Adventism and all it's many branches, including the WWCOG.
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