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Author Topic: Evil  (Read 1233 times)

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Wendy

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Evil
« on: May 03, 2021, 06:59:33 AM »

       I was listening to Ray's audio on Being born  anew in the  Kingdom of God. Ray mentioned when there was just God where was the evil ? How did God know evil ? Does anyone have Ray's notes on this subject or any thoughts on it .                          God bless all
                                      Wendy
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ZekeSr

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Re: Evil
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2021, 11:33:12 AM »

Hello Wendy,

I know Ray has stated in one or more of his talks that we really donít know what God may possibly have put Himself through or endured prior to creation in order to gain wisdom which would include the knowledge of both good and evil. Unfortunately, I canítí remember the specific talk/s. But I do remember Ray mentioning these particulars:

Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Proverbs 8:22-31 New Century Version
22 "I, wisdom, was with the Lord when he began his work, long before he made anything else. 23 I [wisdom]was created in the very beginning, even before the world began. 24 I [wisdom] was born before there were oceans, or springs overflowing with water, 25 before the hills were there, before the mountains were put in place. 26 God had not made the earth or fields, not even the first dust of the earth. 27 I was there when God put the skies in place, when he stretched the horizon over the oceans, 28 when he made the clouds above and put the deep underground springs in place. 29 I was there when he ordered the sea not to go beyond the borders he had set. I was there when he laid the earth's foundation. 30 I was like a child by his side. I was delighted every day, enjoying his presence all the time, 31 enjoying the whole world, and delighted with all its people.


Mike


« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 03:20:18 PM by ZekeSr »
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Wendy

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Re: Evil
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2021, 11:04:03 PM »

Thanks for your input Mike .I've been thinking about it lately about did God the father have a life might have had before Jesus and everything else was created.
I was also thinking about the dinosaurs and what led to there extinction. Like did they live at first with out eating each other in peace then evil came and then they'd eat and kill one another .definitely alot to think about .amazing world our great Father created .and I live when I learn more about him .
            God bless all
             Wendy
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ZekeSr

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Re: Evil
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2021, 11:34:12 AM »

Thanks for your input Mike .I've been thinking about it lately about did God the father have a life might have had before Jesus and everything else was created.
I was also thinking about the dinosaurs and what led to there extinction. Like did they live at first with out eating each other in peace then evil came and then they'd eat and kill one another .definitely alot to think about .amazing world our great Father created .and I live when I learn more about him .
            God bless all
             Wendy

Hi Wendy,
No, I don't believe that all the dinosaurs were ever living together in peace. Up to this time, I'm pretty sure that carnivores have always been carnivores and herbivores have always been prey to the carnivores.
By-the-way, ironically, I just realized that Ray's talk on "Does God Learn?" is posted right on the Bible-Truths' page just above the Lake of Fire series. Like all of his material it's well worth your time.

Mike

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Rene

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Re: Evil
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2021, 01:30:21 PM »

Hi Wendy,

On the subject of evil, the Concordant Literal Bible translation of Ecclesiastes 1:13 says:

"I applied my heart to inquiring− and exploring− by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens: It is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it."


This translation of this scripture was a revelation to me when Ray first pointed it out in a bible study. I have meditated on this truth often as I grapple with the evils in this world. 
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indianabob

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Re: Evil
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2021, 01:50:54 PM »

good day Mike,

I think that the Bible is clear that God commands us to count the cost before carrying out our plans to build a thing.
Surely God followed His own advice and had all things in mind before commencing to build the earth. Luke 14:28

I would like to comment just a little about God's desire to have peace among animals including humans.
=
Most animals today can live in peace as long as there is plenty of food around them so it may have been the same with dinosaurs.
There may be squabbles between individuals, but that doesn't prove that they eat meat rather than veggies.
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In the new earth, whenever that is, Satan will be restrained from fomenting hate among the people.
The animals will no longer have other animals for food but eat grass and there will be no more war to settle disputes, but rather the Lord will arbitrate among the people and the law will be compelled to be observed.
=
So since it would  appear that God can cause animals to eat whatever God decides they should have, then maybe the dinosaurs, with all the vegetation available in the past, did have a primarily/fully vegetable diet.
Of course that doesn't prove they didn't fight for territory or for mates and wound one another.
=
Even today when carnivores fight and bite...they may walk away after the fight without eating as long as they are well fed from other sources.
Self preservation is a prime directive in all life.
Wild animals don't normally kill and eat when they are filled with food.
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Even today, bears for one example can live on either meat or vegetable food depending upon what is available.
We even have humans who live on a balanced diet with no meat protein.
The key word here being a "balanced" diet of wholesome food.
=
Just offering an alternate to the absolute meat diet for "dino".
Sharp teeth are also great for tearing, growing vegetation to get a mouthful.

Indiana Bob

Isaiah 65:20-25
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Isaiah 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
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Mic 4:3  And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. 
=

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ZekeSr

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Re: Evil
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2021, 05:35:54 PM »




So since it would  appear that God can cause animals to eat whatever God decides they should have, then maybe the dinosaurs, with all the vegetation available in the past, did have a primarily/fully vegetable diet.
Of course that doesn't prove they didn't fight for territory or for mates and wound one another.
=
Even today when carnivores fight and bite...they may walk away after the fight without eating as long as they are well fed from other sources.
Self preservation is a prime directive in all life.
Wild animals don't normally kill and eat when they are filled with food.
=
Even today, bears for one example can live on either meat or vegetable food depending upon what is available.
We even have humans who live on a balanced diet with no meat protein.
The key word here being a "balanced" diet of wholesome food.
=
Just offering an alternate to the absolute meat diet for "dino".
Sharp teeth are also great for tearing, growing vegetation to get a mouthful.


Hi Bob,
I agree that, according to Scripture, God will cause any animal to eat whatever He has determined at any particular time and place. But I respectfully submit that there is no indication of any species of carnivore in the natural world at large, both past and present, having lived on a purely vegan diet. There are fossil records of dinosaurs (mostly herbivores) with the defining marks of having been attacked and eaten by the carnivorous predators of the time. Just as we see today. I donít think they killed indiscriminately back then any more than they do now, but the evidence is clear. The weapons and defense mechanisms are quite obvious in many of these ancient leviathans. And I donít know of any Scripture that contradicts the science. If there is, Iím certainly willing to check it out.



On the subject of evil, the Concordant Literal Bible translation of Ecclesiastes 1:13 says:

"I applied my heart to inquiring− and exploring− by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens: It is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it."


This translation of this scripture was a revelation to me when Ray first pointed it out in a bible study. I have meditated on this truth often as I grapple with the evils in this world. 


Yes, Rene

This has become one of the most profound truths I have ever learned. And it crosses my mind every day.

Mike
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Evil
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2021, 05:59:09 PM »

From our homepage emails to Ray - "Is God to blame for all this Suffering":  http://bible-truths.com/email2.htm#suffer


Isa. 45:7,  "I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace [good] , and CREATE EVIL;  I the LORD DO ALL THESE THINGS."

"Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not EVIL AND GOOD?" (Lam. 3:38).

"...an experience of EVIL hath God given to the sons of man to humble him thereby" (Ecc. 1:13, Concordant Translation).

"Or has not the potter [GOD] the right over the clay, out of the same kneading to make one vessel, indeed, for honor, yet, on for DISHONOR?" (Rom. 9:19-25).

"...I [GOD] will bring EVIL from the north, and a GREAT DESTRUCTION" (Jer. 4:6).

"...Hear, O earth:  behold, I [GOD] will bring EVIL upon this people..." (Jer. 6:19).

"And he said, I [the lying spirit] will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets... and He [GOD] said, ...GO forth, and DO SO" (I Kg. 22:22).

"He [GOD] turned their heart to HATE HIS PEOPLE..." (Psa. 105:25).

"...Thus said the Lord; Behold, I FRAME EVIL AGAINST YOU, and devise a device against you..." (Jer. 18:11).

"O LORD, why has THOU MADE US TO ERR from thy ways, and HARDENED OUR HEART from thy fear?" (Isa. 63:17).

"...so shall the Lord bring upon you ALL EVIL THINGS, until he have destroyed you..." (Josh. 23:15).

"...shall there be  EVIL in a city, and the LORD HAS NOT DONE IT?" (Am. 3:6).

"Thus saith the Lord of hosts... go and SMITE Amelek... DESTROY... SLAY both man and woman, INFANT AND SUCKLING..." (I Sam. 15:2-3).
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Musterseed

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Re: Evil
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2021, 06:01:57 PM »

On the homepage there is an Email to Ray ,,,

Is God to blame for all this suffering? Itís the seventh one down in the first column.
Answers question about evil.


Dino poop 💩 makes great fertilizer.😂😂😂
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" No man can come to me,except the Father draw him"
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Musterseed

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Re: Evil
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2021, 06:32:50 PM »

Wow 😯 Dennis, we were both typing at the same time.
Another good read is Judgement must begin at the House of God.

Without evil there is no suffering and God wants perfect children..
For it became Him, for whom are all things , in bringing many( thatís us and the rest of the world)
Sons into glory , to make the Captian of their salvation PERFECT THROUGH SUFFERING.

.Christ was perfected through suffering..

Heb.12:6... For whom the Lord loves He chastens and scourges every son whom He receives.

God will chasten us until He drives out the beast in us. The beast of supposed free will which is really
self Will does not want to leave peaceably!It takes the very presence of Jesus Christ to dispel this beast
of humanistic self- determinism, commonly called free will.


Rom.2:11... For there is no respect ( GK. partiality) of persons with God.

God uses the same process on all mankind. Grace as a verb is to me one of the most
enlightening things I have learned.

Quote from RayĒ Grace is not a feel good stagnant noun. It is also a verb.It does something.
It accomplishes something, it produces something of Great value in the believer.
Grace has to do with the very destiny of all the people who have ever lived.

Titus 2Ē11... For the Grace of God ( that chastens) BRINGS SALVATION.
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" No man can come to me,except the Father draw him"
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Wendy

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Re: Evil
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2021, 01:32:34 AM »

Hello
 was nice having everyone s input .I like that quote you gave Mike .very meaningful. My mind is constantly thinking n rethinking on different things trying to cover every angle if that makes sense I'm not good with writing but my mind is so full of thoughts and ideas praise God for all that he has shown me his ways . I cant learn enough it's become my hole life .and reason I exist .learning God s ways gives me a life I never had .I love it when everyone shares there ideas and thoughts on things love hearing from you all .
           God bless all
             Wendy
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Evil
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2021, 08:06:13 PM »

Wendy, it's been very helpful to me when "thinking on" the concept of evil, that the word most often translated "EVIL" in many bibles has NO moral bias.  It is NOT a synonym for "sin, transgression, wickedness, etc."  Try not to make them mean the same thing, and thoughts become clearer.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.
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