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Author Topic: Wrong idea or wrong god?  (Read 1946 times)

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lareli

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Wrong idea or wrong god?
« on: September 22, 2021, 06:25:44 PM »

Do they have the wrong idea about God or do they have a totally different god altogether?

They who believe in an eternal hell, freewill etc etc.
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Wrong idea or wrong god?
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2021, 06:59:01 PM »

Php 1:18  What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. 
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indianabob

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Re: Wrong idea or wrong god?
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2021, 10:37:08 PM »

Friend Lareli,

I like to keep in mind that there has to be a false church for those of the elect to come out of.
God presents us with contrasts between good and evil so that we learn to appreciate the good.
Indiana Bob

=
Rev 18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
=
2Co 6:14  Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 
=
Isa 45:5  I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 
Isa 45:6  That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 
Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these
=
Also to follow Dennis' point we have this:

Luk 9:49  And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. 
Luk 9:50  And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us. 

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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Wrong idea or wrong god?
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2021, 12:17:40 AM »

Php 3:18  For many walk as hostile to the cross of Christ, of whom I often told you, and now even weeping I say it,
Php 3:19  whose end is destruction, whose god is the belly, and who glory in their shame, the ones thinking earthly things.
Php 3:20  For our citizenship is in Heaven, from where we also wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Php 3:21  who will transform our body of humiliation, for it to be conformed to His body of glory, according to the working of Him to be able even to subject all things under Himself.

"wrong" god vs. "right" God.

Yet...


1Co 8:4  ...we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God except one.
1Co 8:5  For even if some are called gods, either in the heavens (the heavenlies, the heavens of men's minds) or on the earth; (even as there are many gods, and many lords);
1Co 8:6  but to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we by Him.

Clearly many are not worshiping the "right" god and are worshiping the "wrong god".  But it may also be that some are simply not WORSHIPING the right God.  "For many shall say to Me then, "Lord, Lord..."  Instead they are worshiping their "free" choices, or their doctrines and traditions, or their assumption of the rights and attributes of God, or whatever.  I'll let the Lord sort us all out.

 
« Last Edit: September 23, 2021, 12:31:05 AM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

lareli

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Re: Wrong idea or wrong god?
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2021, 12:30:02 PM »

Php 1:18  What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

Does this apply to all who name their god ‘Christ’?

Their Christ says ‘I love you.. but if you don’t love me back I’ll send you to a burning pit of hell to be tortured beyond all comprehension forever. With no chance of ever getting out.”



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lareli

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Re: Wrong idea or wrong god?
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2021, 12:40:17 PM »

I had a pastor who would tell of conversations he would have with individuals where one would say to him ‘I don’t believe in your god who just sits idly by waiting for me to mess up so he can punish me..” to which the pastor would say “I don’t believe in that god either”. Making the point that his god was a different one than the one being described by the individual.

Which raises the question I posted. The god of the false church would be a ‘false’ god right? Or is it enough to believe that Christ is the son of God who died for the forgiveness of sin.. those who are called ‘son of the devil’ is their god the devil masquerading as an angel of light? Is their god their belly?

Or is their christ, Christ and they are just deceived about his plan, will, and character..
« Last Edit: September 27, 2021, 12:43:19 PM by lareli »
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octoberose

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Re: Wrong idea or wrong god?
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2021, 09:24:55 PM »

Well, at issue as I see it is - do they really believe in the Christ we know? Is it just semantics that the Christian church believes that Christ is the second part of a trinity ?  Or that the death and burial of Christ is a cornerstone of our belief , but they don’t think he actually died- just changed his address ?  How are you resurrected if you weren’t dead ? Or that He is really not the Savior of the World, just the savior of those who choose him ?   Having said all that, I know a lot of church people who will give up their lives for the Christ that they do believe in- the Christ who is a failure , the Christ who never tasted death- but he is the Christ that they love.   God will do as He wills with them and I’m counting on His Mercy.
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indianabob

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Re: Wrong idea or wrong god?
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2021, 01:39:48 AM »

God has a plan for everyone.
God didn't fill the earth with people at the beginning, because God wanted to share the creation process, human reproduction, with the creatures He made and because God wanted them/us to learn by what we suffered, just as Lord Jesus had to learn.
So each subsequent generation lived long enough, on the average, to learn how much they needed God and then God put them to sleep to rest until the times of regeneration of all things.

Those who are being called in this age are not better than any others or more
deserving of salvation, they are just pioneers who go ahead of the others to prepare the way.

I'm pretty sure that when we are changed to our immortal bodies that we will have a lot to learn and a lot to do in service to our Lord and all the people who will come after.
It will be a great adventure and I'm looking forward to it.

Indiana Bob

Indiana Bob
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Wrong idea or wrong god?
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2021, 06:19:45 AM »

Yes, the same Christ. 

Remember, it's not only liars who have a place in the Lake of Fire.  It's also the "timid".  The Lord knows all hearts.  I can't help but believe that all sincere Christians will experience the same odd mixture of joy, shame and worship I experienced the night my eyes unclosed.  To what extent each experiences each is unique to each as they have been formed.  Same as us.

Every knee shall bow, and every tongue declare without reservation Jesus Christ is Lord.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2021, 06:45:28 AM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Dennis Vogel

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Re: Wrong idea or wrong god?
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2021, 09:38:17 AM »

The church does not understand what we know but this is who we are:

1Co 1:26  For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 

1Co 1:27  But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 

1Co 1:28  And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 
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Musterseed

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Re: Wrong idea or wrong god?
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2021, 11:16:43 AM »

From the LOF pt.x

Hardly a person alive will admit to being deceived by Satan, and yet God tells us
that Satan deceives THE WHOLE WORLD. The whole world. Isn’t that just about everybody?

Rev. 12:9.. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the devil and
Satan ( Heb. adversary) which deceives the WHOLE WORLD. And he was cast out into
the EARTH and his angels cast out with him."…………..

1 John 2:15-16…..Love not the world , neither the things that are in the world.
If any man love the world the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world
, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life is not of the Father, but is of the world.

What is more worldly than Babylon?

John 12:43… for they loved the glory that comes from man more than the glory that comes from God.

Php.1:15….Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will.
Php.1:16…The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defence of the gospel.
Php..1:17…The former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, but thinking to
afflict me in my imprisonment.
Jas. 3:14…But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast
and be false to the truth.

From the myth of free Will.


Rom.8:20… For the creature ( Gk. Creation) was made( put under , subordinate to, to obey)
subject to vanity ( Gk. futility) not willingly, but by reason of Him who has subjected the same in hope.

Isn’t Gods plan wonderful. He is changing humanity from what we are into what He is. And yes Ibob
I also am so excited and Octoberose I too pray for mercy every day and I know our God is merciful.
Praise His holy name.

 VS 21…..  b ecause the creature ( Gk. Creation) itself also shall be delivered from
THE BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

1: Co. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

I wrote down this quote from a post. I think it was from Arc.

“ when God finally unveils His work to them , the shout of joy will not be a weak , dubious,
doubtfully attended voice of praise but a BURST OF JOY Equivalent to Adams AT LAST. 😃

John 5:25….  Verily, verily , I say unto you. The hour is coming , and now is , when
the dead  shall hear the voice of the Son Of God and they that hear shall live.

And eventually ALL WILL HEAR, HALLELUJAH.


GOD BLESS YOU ALL.
In Christ, Pamela
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octoberose

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Re: Wrong idea or wrong god?
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2021, 11:13:07 PM »

Really lovely things to think about- thanks Bob and Dave and Dennis and Pamela .
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lareli

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Re: Wrong idea or wrong god?
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2021, 02:38:22 PM »

Heard it said somewhere that- “you are what you do”. It’s not your name that defines you. It’s not your face or your body that defines you. It’s your works. That’s all you are is your works.

If “what you do” or in this case “what God does/is doing” is what defines who God is, then a god that fails and not only fails but tortures most of humanity in eternal hell for no redeeming purpose whatsoever - is not the same as a perfect God that saves all.

If in fact it is the name “Christ” that defines God then why would He say “I never knew you” to the many who say to Him “Lord, Lord..” and “in your name didn’t we..”?
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Wrong idea or wrong god?
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2021, 04:33:29 PM »

Heard it said somewhere that- “you are what you do”. It’s not your name that defines you. It’s not your face or your body that defines you. It’s your works. That’s all you are is your works.

If “what you do” or in this case “what God does/is doing” is what defines who God is, then a god that fails and not only fails but tortures most of humanity in eternal hell for no redeeming purpose whatsoever - is not the same as a perfect God that saves all.

If in fact it is the name “Christ” that defines God then why would He say “I never knew you” to the many who say to Him “Lord, Lord..” and “in your name didn’t we..”?

Just posted this video which helps define us: https://youtu.be/SA-01FRfAkg
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Musterseed

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Re: Wrong idea or wrong god?
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2021, 06:01:26 PM »

Thankyou Dennis and Larelli.

It’s a timely video and message right now. It’s so easy to get caught up in all the
bad news . I was feeling a little defeated today because of an incident with a family
member , but this post and video is most helpful in the study of good works.
God’s timing is always perfect.

Eph. 2:10… For we are His workmanship ( achievement) created in Christ Jesus
for good works which God prepared beforehand , that we should walk in them.

Exo.19:5…. if you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall
be my treasured possession among all peoples, for all the earth is mine.



In Christ, Pamela
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AwesomeSavior

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Re: Wrong idea or wrong god?
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2021, 07:08:06 PM »

Great short insightful video, Dennis   :)
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Wrong idea or wrong god?
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2021, 11:56:31 PM »

Suppose someone who knows me heard me say I didn't want meat on my Subway sandwich and tells everyone that I hated meat.  Are they talking about a different Dave?  Certainly what they are saying is untrue and does not reflect my thoughts, but they haven't either 1.  Changed me or 2.  Conjured up an alternative me--except perhaps in their own mind .   And that's maybe an intersection of agreement.

But for me, there is One God and One Lord.  In Him we live and move and have our being, and without Him there is nothing.  Nothing at all. 

None of us share such complete intimacy in the flesh that we absolutely know one another.   Apparently, even our understanding and perception of inanimate physical objects is "manufactured" in our minds.  It's in the spiritual that truth is truly true.   

Jesus asked the disciples "Who do men say that I am?". He wasn't Elijah (except in Spirit) and he wasn't John.  Then He asked, "And who do you say I am.". "You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God".  Even though they had been chosen, they still did not yet understand what it was to "be the Christ".

"I see men as trees." 

I believe sincere (not fake) christians are speaking of the One Christ, but they are by and large not worshipping Him, no matter what they may presently think.  The day will come when all will worship Him in Spirit and Truth.

Until then, I'll try not to either defend or argue against what your old pastor said.

 



 
« Last Edit: October 07, 2021, 12:42:33 AM by Dave in Tenn »
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lareli

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Re: Wrong idea or wrong god?
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2021, 04:59:15 PM »

Thank you for the replies. A lot of gems 💎 and things to think on. And for the video.. I’ve always known that thinking sinful thoughts makes me guilty, as in the example about lust/adultery. But I’d never considered the opposite or flip side to that. That righteous thoughts would also be rewarded.

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Joel

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Re: Wrong idea or wrong god?
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2021, 01:28:35 PM »

 The way I see it there are numerous comparisons to the New Testament Church and the Old Testament Church. Acts 7:37-39.
Both have had false prophets, angels of light, and many charlatans.
 So I would say plenty of wrong ideas about the true GOD. Lots of people trying to do God a service without being chosen.

Joel
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Wrong idea or wrong god?
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2021, 06:39:30 PM »

The way I see it there are numerous comparisons to the New Testament Church and the Old Testament Church. Acts 7:37-39.
Both have had false prophets, angels of light, and many charlatans.
 So I would say plenty of wrong ideas about the true GOD. Lots of people trying to do God a service without being chosen.

Joel

I've been working on a video where Ray says:

From this we learn that there are any
number of things stated in the OT,
that when you bring them to the NT,
they apply to different people.

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