What should I do about friendships

[Anjel Uriel]

I'm having difficulty understanding this matter. The Scriptures tells us that "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" 2 Corinthians 6:14

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. Ephesians 5:6-7

I know we cannot avoid dealing with unbelievers. Paul even told us that for that to happen we would have to leave this world. "Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world". 1 Corinthians 5:10

However, when we speak about being "unequally yoked" and "Therefore "Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you" 2 Corinthians 6:17,

Ss it talking about making intimate relationships with those people? I ask because wouldn't that mean that we should live in solitude? I personally don't have friends and apart from my little brother, I don't know anyone who knows and believes the truth. I want to have friends but at the same time I don't wanna disobey The Lord or go against His teachings, so what should I do? If the righteous thing is to be not have friendships with unbelievers then so be it but then what should I do? The only thing left apart from this forum is Babylon and I don't think anyone that has truly come out wants to return. I don't want to go to Babylon because I don't want to seek friendships there but I also don't want to go into the world. So should I stay friendless ? I feel at a crossroads on the left I have the world and on the right I have Babylon.

I feel lost and admittedly lonely when I see people my age hanging out and having fun together. (I'm turning 21 this week). Not that I wanna get drunk or go to clubs since those things don't interest me but then must I remain alone? Cause the only place around me that I know where believers are at is Babylon. 

[Dennis Vogel]

That word 'fellowship' is also translated 'partnership':

(CLV)  Do not |become~ diversely |yoked with unbelievers. For awhat partnership have righteousness and lawlessness? Or awhat communion has light tdwith darkness?
(NRSV)  Do not be mismatched with unbelievers. For what partnership is there between righteousness and lawlessness? Or what fellowship is there between light and darkness?
(Rotherham)  Be not getting diversely yoked with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness? Or what fellowship hath light with darkness?
(RSV)  Do not be mismated with unbelievers. For what partnership have righteousness and iniquity? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?

I don't think this is talking about splinting the cost of a pizza with the 'called' or even an atheist.

And I think it's important to understand who we are:

1Co 1:26  For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 
1Co 1:27  But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 
1Co 1:28  And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 
1Co 1:29  That no flesh should glory in his presence. 

It's impossible to not inner-act with others and survive in this world. But I think if you follow this verse you'll be okay:

1Jn 2:15  Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 

[Extol]

Hi Anjel

Welcome and thanks for sharing your story with us.

For me Paul's letters to Corinth are more difficult to understand than his others, because he was responding to specific questions or arguments from the Christians there, and we do not have those letters that the Corinthian church wrote to him. Of course there is plenty of theological material in them too, but there are several things that make you ask "Why is that in there?" Ray said he really had no idea what was going on with the "women must be silent" controversy, because that pretty clearly "contradicts" other scriptures where women prophesy and speak truth. Something was going on in the church of Corinth but unfortunately we don't know what. (But that's where faith comes in....we don't know all the answers. Eventually we will understand how it all fits together.) My point in saying this is we don't necessarily have to apply all of Paul's words literally to our own 21st century situations. In the case of the passage you quoted, we do have some extra information provided by Paul later in his letter. In 2 Cor. 11:13-15 he writes there were people pretending to be Christians but who were actually ministers of Satan. THAT is the group Paul admonished the church to be separate from.

As for your own situation, I advise you not to feel guilty about hanging out with others who are not like-minded. I think it's fine to socialize with people who have common non-biblical interests, such as rap or anime. Of course, discernment is required. I don't have to tell you about the dangerous influence of certain hip hoppers, and if you have anime buddies who want you to get drunk and watch porn....find some new anime buddies.

I also advise you to not be afraid of hanging out with Christians. Because Ray was so hard in his letters to Hagee and Kennedy (and rightly so), a lot of people on the forum made the mistake of generalizing, thinking all Christians in church were of the same mindset, that they all like the idea of hell, don't know anything about the Bible, etc. A lot of the posts from this forum's early days don't look good in hindsight; there are posts oozing with arrogance, laughing and mocking the church for being so blind and stupid, and how can they actually believe this or that? I shared in that attitude myself. Because of my anti-church attitude, I didn't see much spiritual growth in my life for several years after learning the truth of universal salvation. I foolishly thought I had reached the mountain top, so to speak (because what knowledge could be better than universal salvation?). I shunned Christian music and books or activities associated with "non-universal salvation" Christians. I was a huge fan of certain metal bands and most of my friendships were with non-believer metal fans. This was a big mistake on my part. Not that my friends were bad influences (our activities were all family friendly); but my anti church attitude left a sort of spiritual void in my life, because I threw the baby out with the bath, as the saying goes. My life is much more enriched since I've changed this attitude. Almost all the music I listen to is praise/hymn music, and I read books and listen to podcasts by believers who are in church, and yes, believe in eternal punishment. There is a lot of excellent material in some of the apologetics books I've read. It's far more beneficial to read an apologetics book--and skip the chapter on hell--than to throw it in the garbage and headbang to metal. I'd rather hang out with a hell-believing Christian and talk about the Bible than talk about sports with an unbeliever. (And I'm a big sports fan.) Despite what many of us on the forum initially thought (and some probably still think), there is a lot of common ground with us and the hell believer. I can discuss our shared beliefs, and introduce the person to universal salvation. If they don't accept it at first, fine. That doesn't mean I have to give up and insist on hanging out only with non-Christians.  Christians are more on our side than NOT on our side. (I speak generally. Obviously there are some purposely wicked and deceitful people in the church.) This has become more apparent in the last few years. While the world is ready and willing to accept anything, certain Christian leaders--yes, even some who believe in hell--are standing their ground, insisting that homosexuality is a sin, and there are only two genders.

[Rhys 🕊]

Your almost 21 you say and your interested in the deeper things of God. I was still in stuck in many false doctrines at that age but that was quite a while ago when I was 21, I believe at that time they had just invented the wheel.

From Ray's Paper as below this part may be of help

https://bible-truths.com/yoked.htm


The phrase "unequally yoked together" is the translation of just one Greek word, heterozugeo, which is a compound word that means, "to yoke up differently; to associate discordantly; unequally yoke together." It is used but this one time in the Bible.

The word "yoke" means a coupling as when two oxen are coupled or yoked together by a pulling beam to do work such as plowing a field or pulling a wagon.

Also as Jesus says

John 17:15 I pray not that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil.


I still struggle with many things so to help you I will state what I do and that is to continue to pray and seek God and keep studying God's word

James 4:8 ESV
Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

There are things I attend and things I don't attend just as there are people I spend time with and those that I don't or very little. The answer is to keep asking God. I feel I grasp more as time goes on and experiencing different things in this life. It takes a lot to deal with this carnal man but it's worth it.

Don't walk hand in hand with someone up a hill who is carrying way too much baggage when you know your going to collapse, they will most probably walk on and leave you in there dust and not care.


Also just a reply to Jessie (Extol) for his comment - I think it's fine to socialize with people who have common non-biblical interests, such as rap.

What nonsense is this.    Rap is the most hideous sinful music out there and therefore needs some serious repenting.   


Rhys

[ralph]

It depends what your definition of a friend is. A true friend is a very difficult thing to find.  You can have acquaintances or companions, but a true friend is something entirely different.

True friends will put their own wants and needs aside when you need them.

John 15:13
Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.

And I don't see a true friendship developing if you do not share the same beliefs. 

Amos 3:3
Can two walk together, unless they are agreed?

"I feel lost and admittedly lonely when I see people my age hanging out and having fun together. (I'm turning 21 this week). Not that I wanna get drunk or go to clubs since those things don't interest me but then must I remain alone? "

Those people your age who are getting drunk and going to clubs are the ones who are lost.  You are far from lost if you  have Jesus Christ in your heart and the folks here in this forum to fellowship with. You said you are lonely.  You could be surrounded by lots of people and still feel completely alone.   I am 50 years old and have received more love, affection and loyalty from pet dogs than some of the people that called themselves my friends over the years.

My advice is to pray.  The world, as well as the orthodox church, are littered with evil and temptations. If you aren't strong enough, they can eat you alive.  That being said, I don't believe we are to live reclusive lives. 

Like Rhys, I was thinking of John 17:15 and :

Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

We can live in the world and not be a part of it if we have the faith and strength of Christ in us.

Talk to our heavenly father that loves you so dearly and ask him to guide you in this.  If he wants you to have friends right now, he will send them.   In the meantime, you have us.  I'd be delighted to be your friend.

[Dave in Tenn]

As Ray explained, the entire English expression "unequally yoked" is from a single Greek word.  It's not so much about being "yoked" as it is about being yoked "unequally".  The other translations Dennis brought out are equally worth looking at.  The real emphasis is on the NATURE of the yoke.

You'll have to figure out what this means to you, and your answer at 21 may be different than your answer at 42 or 64.  One thing that it for sure means to me is that I won't sit silently in a pew (literally or figuratively) and be preached to by a Christian minister--professional or not.  That's unequal.  Even if you hold the view that they are "believers" (I generally don't)...unequal.

At the same time, I understand very, very well that faith is a gift, and I can't be angry with someone who has not been given a gift.  I have no allies in either the church or the world, having spent decades in both.  I may find both agreement and disagreement with anybody I talk with long enough, but that's not simply a result of what I believe... that's common to everyone with a thought.

You're young.  Don't beat yourself up.  Everybody has trouble finding their way socially.  If I wanted to hang out with the guys, I would.  I'm not better than them.  It's when that relationship turns "unequal" that problems arise.  One unequality is peer pressure.  Make sense?   

[Dave in Tenn]

Just want to add:  If you have this ultimately optimistic faith, you are already "separate".  By the simple choice and grace of God, you have and are something exceedingly rare in the world.

Bury it deep in your heart and dig it up whenever you need it. 

[indianabob]

Good advice Dave, especially the final comment about the optimistic and uplifting faith that we have been given.
It is a "rare treasure" that God has provided to us to encourage and comfort us in all of life's challenges.
Indy Bob

[lareli]

Extol, reading your thoughts on hanging out with Christians. Just curious what your thoughts are on going to a church event or something.

[indianabob]

Extol, reading your thoughts on hanging out with Christians. Just curious what your thoughts are on going to a church event or something.

Hi Lareli,

Jumping in here with a personal comment, please.

I left WCG in 1999 when they changed so much I finally saw the hypocrisy.
I began searching for other helpful teachers and found L. Ray Smith among others.
It was for me a search for truth but while still wearing blinders on my human eyes of understanding.
I believe that God wanted it that way for me.
God does handle each of us in a personal way does HE not?
So I retained my old friendships for a while until actually they stopped calling me for fellowship and I got the message.
I think God orchestrated the whole thing without informing me of the plan.
=
In the case of a young person, say under 40 with active goals in life or still searching for a life's work, a gradual separation can be the better way to find the truth. If God has called you and wants you in HIS family, no personal human errors are going to ruin God's plan for your life.
In addition to that, it may be important to mix with human error the better to observe the error and "realize why" it is not for your own betterment.
The example of apostle Paul is one that I like to recall, in that he was on a completely evil path and Lord Jesus saved him on the spot in a very miraculous manner that certainly got his attention.
Of course Paul was a special case in that his assignment was to take the gospel to the gentile world for the first time.
=
So in closing I do not think it is always appropriate to cut oneself off from all former associations.
=
When God has a plan for your life, HE will get it done in HIS own good time. With God nothing is impossible...!
Indy Bob 

[Porter]

I only have one friend, and he's gay. We have different beliefs, but we're not unequally yoked in the way Paul is referring to. Religion is rarely discussed between us. I know he believes in hell, and all the knowledge I've been given can't change that, and I wouldn't even try. He does know I do not believe in hell. We've even read some of Ray's papers together.   

I think we get along because we treat each other the same way we'd like to be treated. He's a way better friend than all the other "friends" that left me after I quit doing drugs and playing video games 24/7. Looking back, I see now how some of these so-called friends were very self-righteous, with an attitude of condemnation toward others that don't sin like them.

Jesus was always being criticized by the pharisees for hanging out with sinners - sinners that knew they were sinners. What the pharisees didn't understand was that they were terrible sinners themselves. I think that's part of why Jesus always called these holier than thou religious nuts "hypocrites".

I think good friends are hard to find. Furthermore, I don't even look for friends anymore. The only one I have now, found me over 20 years ago. I think you'll know when you find the right friend, the type that will stick with you through the good and bad.

Don't be afraid to experience life, and what ever you do, acknowledge God always.

[Extol]

Extol, reading your thoughts on hanging out with Christians. Just curious what your thoughts are on going to a church event or something.

Hi lareli (fka largeli),

I do not advocate going to church services (though there are a number of other church events one could attend, such as a wedding). My point was rejecting the hell doctrine should not automatically mean a rejection of all persons who adhere to that doctrine; hence my usage of the baby and bath idiom. Sometimes I get a mild desire to have church fellowship, but I don't go, realizing I would probably get frustrated rather quickly. Even so, there are plenty of great hymns and sermons that are spot on, theologically; plenty of hymns and sermons that do not talk about hell (or free will).

I formerly had a warehouse job where workers would rotate from section to section, so there would be different people I'd work next to from week to week. It was more engaging and productive talking to my Reformed Christian co-worker than it was talking to an unbelieving co-worker about movies. The topic of hell didn't have to be discussed. We could talk about church history, or the atoning work of Christ. They aren't awful people, even if what they believe about man's destiny is awful.

[lareli]

To me, a person who believes in the hell doctrine also believes in a God who makes it so. And if the Christians goal is to become more and more like their God and also to judge like Him, well... I dunno. Just thinking out loud. Of course I know there are Christian's who believe in hell but don't like the idea. Others who use the belief in hell as their spiritual machine gun to kill anyone who doesn't believe in their God.

Christian or non Christian isn't a deal breaker for me as long as the person doesn't push their beliefs on me.. but that doesn't mean we can't talk about it. So ya, church service is probably not happening. Been to 2 or 3 since coming here and it was uncomfortable. Been to church functions and was not so bad and even 'good'. The church I came from is pretty non-denominational and I've never heard a service involving hell once I graduated to the big service from the youth service. But even without the hell doctrine, everything that is taught is riddled with contradictions. It's a house made of cards.

I thank God for the gift of seeing it as so, and need reminding to not look down on people who can't see it. Otherwise I'm now the one using what I believe as a machine gun.

[Extol]

To me, a person who believes in the hell doctrine also believes in a God who makes it so. And if the Christians goal is to become more and more like their God and also to judge like Him, well... I dunno. Just thinking out loud. Of course I know there are Christian's who believe in hell but don't like the idea. Others who use the belief in hell as their spiritual machine gun to kill anyone who doesn't believe in their God.

But we also know that most Christians do not make that connection, of God being the actual creator of hell. And most do not say that God sends people there; it is the sinners who choose to go there. I believed in hell for the first 21 years of my life, and I don't remember ever liking the idea of anybody--not even Hitler--going there. I also never thought about it as somewhere that God created. It was just a sad reality of life. That is why I like to be more sympathetic to them, because I was there; as were most of us on this forum. (I'm talking about the average hell-believing Christian, not the John Hagee types.)