> General Discussions
how to address Jesus in the resurrection
Porter:
--- Quote from: AK4 on March 20, 2022, 04:13:13 AM ---I started listening and following along again to the lake of fire series. Ray mentions Rev 20:6 along with many other verses how 1 Cor 15:51 can/will be true.
There's a lot we have to do
--- End quote ---
I'm with you on that, Anthony. To be given the honor of helping Jesus save the world really is a big deal. To rule and reign with Christ in His Kingdom is one of the rewards (as well as the reward of immortality) promised to those that overcome and endure to the end while they are still mortal.
The thing I have a problem understanding is whether there is a difference between when Jesus say's "I come quickly" in Revelation, and Paul saying "unto the coming of the Lord" in 1Th 4:15 . Are these two statements spiritual witnesses? Here's a quote from Ray that got me thinking. Hopefully the link works, as I've had some issues linking stuff correctly.
https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,5815.0.html
HOW WE GOT THE BIBLE . . . . . . . . . . Mobile Conference 2007
I’ll give you a little insight into Revelation. This book is the testimony of Jesus Christ, which is the Spirit of prophecy.
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show unto His servants, even the things which must shortly(quickly) come to pass: and He sent and signified it by His angel unto His servant John;
v. 2 who bare witness of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, even of all things that he saw.
v. 3 Blessed is he that reads, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand.
v. 4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia:
Rev 1:08 I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.
He just keeps repeating this over and over. That He existed, He was killed, resurrected and He now is and He will come. Everything in this book is and was and will come, see. To every generation who reads this, He’s coming to you. He came in the pass, He is coming now, He’ll come in the future. How does this happen quickly?
It happens to you when you are born and have grown up big enough to read these pages and God opens up your mind. Then you have just so long to change your life, get rid of the beast, get rid of the carnality in you. That’s got to be done quickly, because at best we live, you know… well some of us live longer, but you live to maybe 80. If I live to be 130, my life would just now be half over with. Think about it.
So Jesus Christ is, was and will be in every generation, that was and is now and will be. This is a work in progress. This is about US.
Why would we have a book (Revelation) that we print and print and waste paper for thousands of years, about something that’s going to come in never never land? Why do we want that? Who cares? They say, ‘oh that’s for that last generation, they need to know it.’
Listen when they are closing the lid, it’s your last generation, you know. I don’t care if you were born in the 300’s or 800’s or 1600’s or 1900’s, that’s all you get, that short period of time. So these thing have to be done quickly.-----------
Another thing, I don't believe Jesus ever really left, at least not in the way the Church teaches. I believe Jesus simply disappeared, by becoming invisible again, as is the nature of spirit. Jesus is here now, with you and me always. However, when He does re-appear, that's when we become exactly like Him. Maybe that's what Paul and the other Apostles meant.
You can see why I'm having a hard time understanding and reconciling this literal concept of "the return of Jesus" vs the spiritual concept of "I come quickly". I think about these two concepts a lot, for years even. Perhaps it's not a big a deal as I think it is, but that it's much simpler than I'm making it out to be. Help lol.
Porter:
--- Quote from: SMITTY7000 on March 20, 2022, 02:00:08 PM ---In Zechariah 14, which is a chapter devoted to the “Day of the Lord”, there is a verse [:12] that talks about the plague that the Lord smites the people with who fought against Jerusalem. Their flesh, eyes and tongue will consume away. [ H4743 mâqaq maw-kak' A primitive root; to melt; figuratively to flow, dwindle, vanish: - consume away, be corrupt, dissolve, pine away.]. This seems to me to be the vanishing of the flesh and the entry into the spirit realm. Here I think that this will be to all, - the good, the bad and the ugly. If our Great God will have all to be saved, I have to ask the question here “What good is the flesh any longer at this point”. In :15 it even talks about the animal’s flesh having the same plague – [ no flesh animals in the Kingdom _ Isaiah 11:6]
I believe this is the change that all will experience at that time spoken of in 1 Corinthians 15:52. In the “twinkling of the eye” will not take very long but this makes me think that the flesh dies here as we move into the spirit realm.
Everyone will be spirit. :53. It is not alien to my thinking that all could put on immortality here as well. Is it not God`s will that all will be saved? Our wonderful Creator has the power to bring all to judgement in their own time according to His timing, with or without immortality. Will we not all eventually move into eternity after the eons of judgement have passed?
--- End quote ---
Interesting find Smitty! I was thinking something similar last night before going to bed, but I was thinking about it in a spiritual sense. I even asked myself, "what does it matter if we are literal flesh and blood"? Isn't the "down payment" we receive now, a taste of the spiritual life of Christ that comes from the realm of spirit?
Don't get me wrong, I look forward to a time when I can never die or get sick again. I really look forward to a time when I can see that my former earthly family is with Christ.
ralph:
Very interesting indeed. Your comment brought something to mind. Just thinking out loud here. Is it our physical flesh that makes us carnal or is it our minds? We think about it first and then we do it. According to the Word of God, to think on something carnal is a sin. Hate someone in your heart and you are a murderer. Lust after someone in your heart and you commit adultery. Christ was a physical man for a time and he was perfect in that flesh. Satan is not a physical being and is the most carnal creature that God ever created.
--- Quote from: SMITTY7000 on March 20, 2022, 02:00:08 PM ---In Zechariah 14, which is a chapter devoted to the “Day of the Lord”, there is a verse [:12] that talks about the plague that the Lord smites the people with who fought against Jerusalem. Their flesh, eyes and tongue will consume away. [ H4743 mâqaq maw-kak' A primitive root; to melt; figuratively to flow, dwindle, vanish: - consume away, be corrupt, dissolve, pine away.]. This seems to me to be the vanishing of the flesh and the entry into the spirit realm. Here I think that this will be to all, - the good, the bad and the ugly. If our Great God will have all to be saved, I have to ask the question here “What good is the flesh any longer at this point”. In :15 it even talks about the animal’s flesh having the same plague – [ no flesh animals in the Kingdom _ Isaiah 11:6]
I believe this is the change that all will experience at that time spoken of in 1 Corinthians 15:52. In the “twinkling of the eye” will not take very long but this makes me think that the flesh dies here as we move into the spirit realm.
Everyone will be spirit. :53. It is not alien to my thinking that all could put on immortality here as well. Is it not God`s will that all will be saved? Our wonderful Creator has the power to bring all to judgement in their own time according to His timing, with or without immortality. Will we not all eventually move into eternity after the eons of judgement have passed?
--- End quote ---
Porter:
That's it ralph. I see the quote from Zechariah 14 as a type of judgment resulting in the vanishing of the fleshy carnal mind. I'm just not completely sure if it represents the judgment of the Elect now in this age, or judgment of the wicked at the Great White Throne. Maybe the phrase "the day of the Lord" is key.
Is my literal flesh the problem? Which gets saved first? My mind or my body? And when does it get saved first? I know my body isn't being saved right now, but possibly my mind is being transformed to conform to the mind of Christ. I guess I just won't know till the end.
I'm paraphrasing here, but Ray once said something like - "do good, not for the promise of reward or to avoid punishment, but do good because it's the right thing to do".
Not saying you're wrong Smitty, because I actually think you're right to say "This seems to me to be the vanishing of the flesh and entry into the spirit realm". I can't think of better news than this.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[*] Previous page
Go to full version