> General Discussions
The two gospels theory
ralph:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on May 02, 2022, 06:09:19 AM ---For my part, if you give a man a fish, he can eat for a day. If you give a man a bible, he can find a way to misunderstand it. I think they ran across a verse or two that they didn't quite understand and fashioned a doctrine to explain instead of letting Scripture and Spirit explain.
Mostly it strikes me as taking the spiritual and interpreting it literally. They are failing to compare spiritual with spiritual. Jesus preached the Gospel of the kingdom. In the kingdom, there is no Jew or Greek. Physical circumcision is of no benefit, and neither is physical uncircumcision. If these folks are overly concerned with, essentially, real estate...they have lost the plot.
Their premise is in error, and it follows that every strand that flows from that error is just more error. I watched a short video recently that was of this persuasion. The speaker said, in effect, that to understand the gospel, I had to accept a theological position. No thank you, and no. Click.
Nobody disappoints me like believers in "universal reconciliation". Too many of them have not come far enough out of Babylon or have not been out long enough. And too many of those are teaching.
--- End quote ---
Well said Dave...
indianabob:
--- Quote from: AwesomeSavior on April 28, 2022, 01:22:35 PM ---Haven't heard of the 2 different gospels of Paul and Peter, but know the Paul (faith alone) vs. James (faith plus works) so-called controversy, even though there is no controversy with P and J.
--- End quote ---
Hi Dean,
In my understanding the difference is based on the definition of the terms "forgiveness" and "justification"
In the old covenant, prior to the sacrifice of Christ, a believer desired forgiveness for their guilt in committing sins.
They were required to repent and make sacrifices on an annual basis according to the "law of Moses" in the HOPE that God would graciously forgive and grant them life at the return of the Messiah..
=
In the new and better covenant under a risen Christ seated at God's throne a believer is "justified" and deemed righteous without performing any human act of repentance. In other words, if they believe that Christ died for them and that they died with Christ and Christ's spirit lives in them then they have no need of repentance for salvation ever.
This gift is hard to accept as the person feels that they should be at least cooperating with God, but Paul says no...just believe and the work of salvation is finished. Christ did all that is necessary for your "justification". No works for salvation. However having been granted salvation as a free gift, you now can show appreciation and work for a reward in the life you will have in the future with God. The reward is extra, over and above the gift of LIFE.
Dave in Tenn:
Then they have failed to understand the "difference" between good works and works of the law.
It might help some people to pretend that these letters were not in the bible. Maybe then, theologians would leave them alone. Of course, they ARE...but they can't be understood theologically. Words don't have special "bible-meanings", even though those often appear in bible dictionaries.
octoberose:
That helps a lot Dave- they fail to see the difference between works of the Law and good works.
I think these verses are hard to refute and I’m thinking it may help to close the door on this for me ( not quite there yet but I’m closer ).
Romans 4:3-5 & 9-12 – Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness. 10 Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! 11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. 12 And he is then also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also follow in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
I do struggle with promises to Abraham and when and to whom they will be fulfilled. But I’m working on it.
indianabob:
--- Quote from: octoberose on May 09, 2022, 12:34:03 AM ---That helps a lot Dave- they fail to see the difference between works of the Law and good works.
I think these verses are hard to refute and I’m thinking it may help to close the door on this for me ( not quite there yet but I’m closer ).
Romans 4:3-5 & 9-12 – Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness. 10 Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! 11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. 12 And he is then also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also follow in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
I do struggle with promises to Abraham and when and to whom they will be fulfilled. But I’m working on it.
--- End quote ---
2 Tim 2:1-15
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2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
=Following is a quote from John Wycliffe or Miles Coverdale, a.d. 1535?
This quote illustrates that understanding requires diligent study with purpose including the indwelling spirit of Christ and a teacher. We today have an advantage in that we possess the written word, but even that can be a mystery without God's spirit to guide us.
"It will greatly help you to understand scripture if you note - not only what is spoken and written,
but of whom and to whom,
with what words,
at what time,
where and to what intent,
with what circumstances,
considering what goes before and what follows"
=
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