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[Anjel Uriel]

I ask because I know that everything in The Scriptures is spiritual. Even the literal things have a spiritual connotation. My question is however, did Adam and Eve literally or better yet historically eat of a tree. In other words was this a purely parabolic story or a historical event with spiritual symbolism? The symbols are there when God shows you like The Tree of Life is Christ, the flaming sword is judgement, their nakedness is their wickedness and God slaying an animal to clothe them is obviously of Christ sacrificing Himself to clothe us with His Righteousness. So I thought maybe it’s all symbolical. But, then in books like Romans and Corinthians, Paul talks about The Garden like it was an historical event that took place and even Christ mentioned Abel by name as an actual person that was killed. So is there anything in The Scriptures that tells us if it was historical or purely symbolic ? Also I tried to search in Ray’s emails but in some it seems like he implies it was purely symbolic and in others that it was historical. From my understanding, it was a historical event that took place for our admonition. There really was a garden but God tells us the story with obvious symbolisms to His Elect so they have a better understanding of His Plan. However, if someone knows more then please let me know.

[Dennis Vogel]

Just in case you did not see this:

Adam and Eve were Not Created Perfect in the Image of God!  https://youtu.be/gX4djlwUPKU

[Anjel Uriel]

[/b]Just in case you did not see this:

Adam and Eve were Not Created Perfect in the Image of God!  https://youtu.be/gX4djlwUPKU

Hi Dennis, I rewatched the video and I wholeheartedly agree with Ray. Adam and Eve were already carnal before they disobeyed God. I remember that in one of his audios Ray said something along the lines of “when God finished creating something He says “it was and it was good” but when He talks about creating man in His Image He never says “and it was nor it was good” meaning it’s not finished, He’s still creating man in His Image to this day”.

I also used to believe Adam and Eve were created perfectly but after discovering The Truth and coming here, I realized that it’s another Babylonian doctrine to put humans above God by saying they defied Him with their “free will”. If Adam and Eve were made in The Image of God, they would have rebuked Satan and not sin by coveting and disobeying. Christ is The Image of God and He never sinned, not even when tempted in a more severe manner than Adam and Eve.

But back to my original question. So what I’m getting from the video other than what we discussed above is that Ray did believe that Adam and Eve were real people. 

[Rene]

But back to my original question. So what I’m getting from the video other than what we discussed above is that Ray did believe that
Adam and Eve were real people.

Hi Anjel,

The 4th chapter of Genesis record the names of some of the children of Adam and Eve, starting with Abel, Cain, and then Seth. The scriptures continue to record their lineage and descendants which clearly indicate they were real people.

[Anjel Uriel]

But back to my original question. So what I’m getting from the video other than what we discussed above is that Ray did believe that
Adam and Eve were real people.

Hi Anjel,

The 4th chapter of Genesis record the names of some of the children of Adam and Eve, starting with Abel, Cain, and then Seth. The scriptures continue to record their lineage and descendants which clearly indicate they were real people.

Hi Rene, thanks for your response. I thought about Genesis 4 as proof that they were real people but I guess I was influenced by other comments in some topics of people saying that it was all symbolic and also of still unlearning Babylonian doctrine so I sometimes forget that not every single thing they say it’s a lie. Obviously they mixed the truth with deception, they say Adam and Eve were real people but mixed up with the lie that they were created perfect. But, thanks to you and Dennis responses, now I know understand that they were real people and historically, the events of the Garden did happen. Now I know that like most historical events in The Scriptures, it has a deeper spiritual meaning. First the natural or historical event and then comes the spiritual symbolism and understanding. Again, thanks for the help. 

[indianabob]

Hi Anjel,
Gen 1:31.
God saw everything that He had made and behold it was very good.
Good for the designed purpose.
Good for fulfilling the plan God had to gradually develop mankind.
Even Satan was created for a good purpose.

[Anjel Uriel]

Hi Anjel,
Gen 1:31.
God saw everything that He had made and behold it was very good.
Good for the designed purpose.
Good for fulfilling the plan God had to gradually develop mankind.
Even Satan was created for a good purpose.

Hi IndiBob, I was actually paraphrasing what Ray said in the audio 'Saved by Grace through Faith". I know that everything that God created was good for its specific purpose but I was talking about this:

Saved By Grace Thru Faith . . . . . . . . . . Biblestudy June 2007
https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,5417.msg43144.html#msg43144
Anyway, I don’t know how far to go with this. How do we correlate 15 1/2 billion years, that they say the universe has been here and 5 billion years that the earth has been here, to Genesis that which says God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days. How in the world could that ever be correlated? One has got to be flat out wrong, maybe not.

Gen 1:12  And the earth brought forth grass, herbs yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit, wherein is the seed thereof, after their kind: and God saw that IT WAS GOOD.

Gen 1:14-15  And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years:  and let them be for lights in the firmament of heaven to give light upon the earth: and IT WAS SO.

Gen 1:18  and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that IT WAS GOOD.

Gen 1:21  And God created the great whales, and every living creature that moveth, wherewith the waters swarmed, after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind: and God saw that IT WAS GOOD.

Whales? No, I afraid that does not fit there. That’s another thing I might go into, “the great whales” What was it that God created there? The “great” part is right, great - awesome - awful - terrible, but the whale part is not right. 

Gen 1:24  And God said, Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind, cattle, and creeping things, and beasts of the earth after their kind: and IT WAS SO.

Gen 1:25  And God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps upon the ground after its kind: and God saw that IT WAS GOOD.

Are you following that? It was good - it was so - it was good - it was so - it was good - it was so - it was good - it was good - it was so - it was good.

Gen 1:26  And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the foul of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.
v. 27  And God created man in His own image (Hebrew says - So creating is God humanity), in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.
v. 28  And God blessed them: and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the foul of the air, and over every living thing that moves upon the face of the earth.
v. 29  And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for food:

“So We are creating man” Adam and Eve right? This is the full description of it, it’s the major session of it in chapter one and then we go into every beast of the field. Then we go into some other subject. What happened to ‘it is so’? Well I can see it’s not there, because it was NOT SO. It wasn’t yet good. 

He skipped right over that and He talks about the animals, the beast and every creeping thing.  I’ve given you every herb of the field for food, now it is so. Now all this food I’ve given you, every beast and cattle for food and it was so. 

But the biggest of all in this whole creation story, the creation of Adam and Eve. The creation of humanity and it wasn’t so, nor does it say it was good. Why? To me it is so obvious…. it’s not complete! This part was not complete.
 
The animals were made like they were suppose to be made and it was so. Adam and Eve were not made the way it was suppose to be and it was NOT so, it was NOT good. This is the whole purpose for human existence... we are not yet complete! It is not yet so, neither is it yet good. 

When you turn on the news on CNN - World New - Fox News - MSNBC and see what’s happening today, do you think it is good out there? It’s not good. This human race on this earth is not living like they were made in the spiritual image of God, for sure. So He said, “Let Us be making (the process) man into Our image,” but it was not so. 
 

[indianabob]

Quote: "But the biggest of all in this whole creation story, the creation of Adam and Eve. The creation of humanity and it wasn’t so, nor does it say it was good. Why? To me it is so obvious…. it’s not complete! This part was not complete."
Hi Anjel,
I agree with Ray Smith that we are a work in progress and not yet complete.
However I will stretch a point to say that we are still "good for the designed purpose" anyway. God is starting with clay and molding it into something of value. So sure we are not finished, but we are still good clay. All clay needs to be pounded and molded to take out the impurities and air bubbles, that is just part of the process, but the human "animal" with a conscious mind, an incomplete character etc etc. is still good for God's purpose. God wanted us to be imperfect. He did that intentionally. 
Bob