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Wrath vs. Judgement

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Dynamo54:
I have not been able to discover in Ray’s writings, answers, or videos an answer to a question I have, and am wondering if any can steer me to an answer from Ray, or something that approximates an answer.

As I understand it, God’s wrath will be poured out on those living at the end time of Christ’s return. The elect are spared the wrath, but not tribulation. It would seem that only those alive at that time would experience the wrath. By that I mean all people who have died without Christ (and that is obviously the mega majority of mankind through ages) will be resurrected to judgement at some time in the future and undergo judgement as the elect are now….living a life and learning God’s way and repenting and becoming like God via his Holy Spirit. So, it seems, (or at least I haven’t seen scripture that states that those resurrected to judgement will have wrath poured out on them) that dead is a good state to be in…they will miss the wrath of the end times.
Of course Ray said that Revelation is symbolic, and could it be that the wrath will not be physical? This is a hard one for me to understand. Judgement during an unstated length of time (yom?) for all in the resurrection to judgement seems definetly preferable to wrath to me.

indianabob:
Good morning dynamo,

You have a fair point when you write that "dead" is better than living through the coming tribulation at Christ's return.
When our Lord returns it will be necessary to make all things new. That would seem to include destroying all evil things that mankind has created or built that are against God's purpose.
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Christ Jesus is not going to govern a world that continues in Satan's way of living.
So consider what we have today that we lust after that would not be useful in a society where truth prevails and all people have access to knowledge of the truth of scripture. One pure language world wide. One true religion world wide with no one being deceived by Satan who is put away for that whole age.
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With that style of governance, Why would we need sky scraper buildings housing commercial headquarters for international trade? Why would we need two automobiles in every garage? Why would we need hundreds of colleges teaching lies to students about the creation. We wouldn't would we?

So then since these artificial monuments to man's folly will not be needed, take them down!

At that time there will be earthquakes as have never before been seen.
That would solve the problem of how to hide the folly of mankind from future generations, would it not?
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Then the members of mankind that remain alive through the destruction can begin to rebuild according to God's will rather than their own faulty reasoning.

Just supposing,  ;)

 Warm regards, Indiana Bob

Porter:

--- Quote from: Dynamo54 on May 27, 2022, 08:22:50 PM ---

As I understand it, God’s wrath will be poured out on those living at the end time of Christ’s return. It would seem that only those alive at that time would experience the wrath.

…they will miss the wrath of the end times.
--- End quote ---
Hi Dynamo54,
Do you have a source for this statement of yours that I quoted? I ask because it would help us understand why you see it that way.

I've always thought that at least only part of the many called will experience this wrath (after the resurrection to judgment) regardless of when they died, but I don't know for sure.

Dennis Vogel:

--- Quote ---It would seem that only those alive at that time would experience the wrath.
--- End quote ---

Rev 11:18  And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 

Dynamo54:
Porter
Yes, Dennis has a right scripture. Also Rev. 8:1, Rev. 15.1, and Rev. 16.1 are on point.
My point is that Ray showed us that the elect are promised to not incur God’s wrath on the world, but that the elect are  not promised no tribulation (what most churches call “the great tribulation”). The elect go thru much tribulation throughout their lives, but not at the end time before the wrath of God is poured out. I can find no place where scripture states that in the white throne judgement period the resurrected to physical life people will be shown/experience God’s wrath AT THAT TIME. I only see God’s wrath on the world applied right before Christ’s return….hence my statement that “dead” is a good state to be in at the time of Christ’s return IF one is not an elect.

In regards to the white throne judgement period, I have come to think of it similar to what Ray discussed about the creation “days”.  I believe Ray pointed out the word “day” is from the Hebrew “yom”, which can mean an unspecified period or length of time. Ray said that definition in no way precluded the age of the universe and earth being billions and possible trillions of years old. He showed how science today and the fossil record support a very very long time for the earth coming to its present state.

I wonder if the Lord’s “ day”, and judgement “day” are similar…..a very long time. It seems illogical to me that the over 100 billion people would all be resurrected at the same time and ministered to by the elect. Why would that judgement “day” not be thousands and thousands of years with the dead being raised up according to some planned time frame. That day/yom would still be a time of judgement no matter how many years it lasted. That is just my conjecture.

As to my original question on wrath in the white throne judgement, I will appreciate if y’all find any scriptures that speak to that. Absent scripture I think I will believe that God’s wrath is only applied before Christ’s coming.

Of course Ray has shown how the whole book of Revelation is spirit and symbolic, so maybe we really don’t understand how to understand the referenced “wrath”.  Is that symbolic too?

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