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Is Jesus Christ Eternal
Anjel Uriel:
--- Quote from: indianabob on September 05, 2022, 06:48:27 PM ---Anjel,
I like your comment copied below with one difference, perhaps in wording.
Father GOD the self existent one created Christ to be GOD's agent through whom GOD would create the rest of the celestial and terrestrial creation. All according to Father God's plan and beginning with the heavenly creation and then the earthly creation, each in the proper order. First the heaven of God and then the material Earth. Gen 1:1
This process was overseen by son God (eloheem H430) or Christ and his "devine" helpers.
Much more to consider but start with the following verses.
= =
► Jesus Christ existed before Abraham (John 8:58),
► He had a glory with the Father before the world
came to be (John 17:5)
► He would ascend to where He was formerly (John
6:62)
► All is created in Him, through Him and for Him
(Colossians 1:16)
► He is the Firstborn of every creature (Colossians
1:15)
► Apart from Him not even one thing came into
being which has come into being (John 1:3)
► He made the eons (Hebrews 1:3)
► He emptied Himself, taking the form of a slave,
coming to be in the likeness of humanity (Philippians
2:7)
--- Quote from: Anjel Uriel on September 05, 2022, 02:52:17 PM ---I know The Father brought forth Christ and I always took it as that He gave birth to Him. There was a time when The Father alone existed and He then created Christ by bringing Him forth. Well, I’ve been seeing old posts of people here and I’m getting kinda confused. Basically, it seems some old posters basically believed in a form of Binitarianism, that is, Christ always existed with God The Father and it’s co-eternal and that Christ can’t be created because we worship Him. So is there Scriptures that prove Christ is always existed?
My point of view (which I made a whole post about where IndiBob and Dave responded) is this:
God The Father was always existed. He then decided to create a Divine Being that would be His Representative to Humanity, so He did this by begetting a Son and that Son is The Very First Creation of His Father. I saw things along the lines of “How can Christ be be created if He’s worshipped, He’s begotten of God not created”.
But, aren’t we also both created and begotten of God? We are created because there’s a time we didn’t exist but we are begotten because God is our Father and lives in us and whatever someone does to us, they do it to God.
My reason for why Christ can be both created and still worshipped is because He represents His Father perfectly. For example, Christ will judge the world for how they treats us because whatever they do to us is the exact same as doing to Him, because we represent Him. Therefore, even though Christ was created, because He’s the very first creation and the begotten Son of God who represents Him perfectly, then He can be worshipped because worship to Christ is the same as worship to His Father.
Let me know what you all think cause I’ve been wrestling with this for the last week.
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
Hi Bob, I agree that maybe I should have worded it in a different way. Christ is not only The Representative of God to Humanity but also The Creator. It’s like Paul said “Out of God through Christ”. We know of verses where The Son is said to be The Creator but also of others where The Father is said to be The Creator. We know Jesus is The Jehovah of The Old Testament because He was seen and talked to and nobody has seen or spoken to The Father yet there’s a scripture where it talks about “The God of our Father” and it’s referring to The Father.
It’s like Ray said in an audio something along the lines of: “who did the creating? The Father or Son? They both did it because They Both are The One Elohim, The Father is The Father Elohim and The Son is The Jehovah Elohim, you can’t separate them because The Son is The Spokesperson”.
I see it like this: Suppose my father (Angel) gives me (Anjel) $20 and tells me “son go buy food for us” so he sends me to the store and I buy food. Then when I return and my siblings ask “who bought the food?” I would reply “our father did” because even though I was the one who went to the store and paid, My father was the one who gave me the plan, resources and ability to carry it out. So the father Angel did the buying through his son Anjel and that’s the analogy I thought of when thinking how it was that The Father did the creating through His Son. He gave all He has to His Son including The Power to accomplish his Will and then let Him know it was His Will that The Creation happened and since Christ always does what pleases His Father, He created everything.
Also, I hadn’t considered that after The Son created The Spiritual World (The Heavens) that He would be accompanied by the Angels while He went on to create the physical world but there is Scripture in Job 38 that when The Foundations of The Earth were laid down, The Angels shouted for joy. You gave me something to new to consider ;D
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