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Author Topic: Transfiguration , what if…  (Read 679 times)

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octoberose

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Transfiguration , what if…
« on: January 25, 2023, 12:06:10 AM »

I’ve had more time to just think lately and a thought came to me- of course it’s just a what if and no way of knowing but….  I was reading about the transfiguration and of course we know Peter et al were looking at a vision. But the perplexing part to me is that Jesus is seen speaking to Moses and Elijah- and isn’t that odd? He’s speaking to a vision like they are really there. But, what if the vision was a vision of something that had happened in the past ?  What if Jesus actually spoke to Moses and then Elijah in their life times  and that’s why he was  seen speaking to them?  Is that a crazy idea?  So many things we can’t possibly know…..     
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indianabob

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Re: Transfiguration , what if…
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2023, 02:06:43 AM »

hi Octoberose,

I think that it is good to wonder out loud and ask interesting questions and even speculate on the answers.
King Solomon in scripture was one to question everything out of his curiosity and his responsibilities as King and
because of his humble attitude God gave him wisdom above that of his fellow man.
The account of visions was included in scripture to inspire us to question everything and learn as much as God allows.
*
Apostle Paul had a vision as well and it was so wonderous that God gave him troubles to keep him humble.
2 Cor 12

Ezek 1:1
Now it came about in the thirtieth year, on the fifth day of the fourth month, while I was by the river Chebar among the exiles, the heavens were opened and I saw visions of God.



Luke 1:22
Verse Concepts
But when he came out, he was unable to speak to them; and they realized that he had seen a vision in the temple; and he kept making signs to them, and remained mute.

Acts 9:10
Verse Concepts
Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and the Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.”

Acts 9:12
Verse Concepts
and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him, so that he might regain his sight.”

Acts 10:10-13
But he became hungry and was desiring to eat; but while they were making preparations, he fell into a trance; and he *saw the sky opened up, and an object like a great sheet coming down, lowered by four corners to the ground, and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air.read more.
Acts 11:5
Verse Concepts
“I was in the city of Joppa praying; and in a trance I saw a vision, an object coming down like a great sheet lowered by four corners from the sky; and it came right down to me,

Acts 10:3
Verse Concepts
About the ninth hour of the day he clearly saw in a vision an angel of God who had just come in and said to him, “Cornelius!”

Acts 16:9
Verse Concepts
A vision appeared to Paul in the night: a man of Macedonia was standing and appealing to him, and saying, “Come over to Macedonia and help us.”

Acts 22:17-18
“It happened when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I fell into a trance, and I saw Him saying to me, ‘Make haste, and get out of Jerusalem quickly, because they will not accept your testimony about Me

« Last Edit: January 25, 2023, 03:38:44 PM by indianabob »
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ralph

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Re: Transfiguration , what if…
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2023, 11:34:40 PM »

I’ve had more time to just think lately and a thought came to me- of course it’s just a what if and no way of knowing but….  I was reading about the transfiguration and of course we know Peter et al were looking at a vision. But the perplexing part to me is that Jesus is seen speaking to Moses and Elijah- and isn’t that odd? He’s speaking to a vision like they are really there. But, what if the vision was a vision of something that had happened in the past ?  What if Jesus actually spoke to Moses and then Elijah in their life times  and that’s why he was  seen speaking to them?  Is that a crazy idea?  So many things we can’t possibly know…..   

Jesus did speak to them. 

Exodus 3:14
14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”

John 8:58
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
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octoberose

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Re: Transfiguration , what if…
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2023, 11:50:21 PM »

Love the Vision verses !  And love the idea of Jesus  speaking with them !
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Anjel Uriel

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Re: Transfiguration , what if…
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2023, 12:42:30 AM »

I’ve had more time to just think lately and a thought came to me- of course it’s just a what if and no way of knowing but….  I was reading about the transfiguration and of course we know Peter et al were looking at a vision. But the perplexing part to me is that Jesus is seen speaking to Moses and Elijah- and isn’t that odd? He’s speaking to a vision like they are really there. But, what if the vision was a vision of something that had happened in the past ?  What if Jesus actually spoke to Moses and then Elijah in their life times  and that’s why he was  seen speaking to them?  Is that a crazy idea?  So many things we can’t possibly know…..   

Hi octoberose, I actually think Jesus might have been re-enacting past conversations He had with Moses and Elijah. In Exodus 24:9-10 we read:

Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10and they saw the God of Israel. Under His feet was a work like a pavement made of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself.

Moses even spoke to Him privately and they conversed face to face as friends

Numbers 12:8
With him, I will speak mouth to mouth, even plainly, and not in riddles; and he shall see Yahweh’s form. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant, against Moses?”

Exodus 33:11
Thus the LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend. Then Moses would return to the camp, but his young assistant Joshua son of Nun would not leave the tent.

And concerning Elijah we read:

1 Kings 19:9
There Elijah entered a cave and spent the night. And the word of the LORD came to him, saying, "What are you doing here, Elijah?"

1 Kings 19:13-15
When Elijah heard it, he pulled his cloak over his face and went out and stood at the mouth of the cave. Then a voice said to him, “What are you doing here, Elijah?” He replied, “I have been very zealous for the LORD God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, torn down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too.” The LORD said to him, “Go back the way you came, and go to the Desert of Damascus. When you get there, anoint Hazael king over Aram.

Also, the fact that we read that “ the word of the LORD came to him” and Elijah speaks as if He is face to face with someone leads me to believe he wasn’t just hearing a “disembodied voice” but we know from John 1 and Revelation 19:13 that there’s someone who is The Word.

Yet, despite those accounts of Moses and Elijah, we read in John 1:18

No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is Himself God and is at the Father's side, has made Him known.

So, like Ray said, every time someone in The Old Testament spoke with Jehovah, they were speaking with God but not The Father, it was The Pre-Incarnate Christ.

So, that leads me to think that the vision wasn’t just a pretend talk with Moses and Elijah, but a flashback for Jesus of when He spoke with The Prophets, maybe that’s why the disciples recognize it was Moses and Elijah, because despite never meeting them in person, the conversation they were having with Jesus probably was words we read about in Scripture. At least, that’s my two cents.


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The LORD answered, "Could a mother forget a child who nurses at her breast? Could she fail to love an infant who came from her own body? Even if a mother could forget, I will never forget you. Isaiah 49:15

octoberose

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Re: Transfiguration , what if…
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2023, 02:24:26 AM »

That’s just exciting Dennis - I love looking at scripture and having more of the story revealed to us .
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ralph

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Re: Transfiguration , what if…
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2023, 10:20:29 PM »

I’ve had more time to just think lately and a thought came to me- of course it’s just a what if and no way of knowing but….  I was reading about the transfiguration and of course we know Peter et al were looking at a vision. But the perplexing part to me is that Jesus is seen speaking to Moses and Elijah- and isn’t that odd? He’s speaking to a vision like they are really there. But, what if the vision was a vision of something that had happened in the past ?  What if Jesus actually spoke to Moses and then Elijah in their life times  and that’s why he was  seen speaking to them?  Is that a crazy idea?  So many things we can’t possibly know…..   

Hi octoberose, I actually think Jesus might have been re-enacting past conversations He had with Moses and Elijah. In Exodus 24:9-10 we read:

Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10and they saw the God of Israel. Under His feet was a work like a pavement made of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself.

Moses even spoke to Him privately and they conversed face to face as friends

Numbers 12:8
With him, I will speak mouth to mouth, even plainly, and not in riddles; and he shall see Yahweh’s form. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant, against Moses?”

Exodus 33:11
Thus the LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend. Then Moses would return to the camp, but his young assistant Joshua son of Nun would not leave the tent.

And concerning Elijah we read:

1 Kings 19:9
There Elijah entered a cave and spent the night. And the word of the LORD came to him, saying, "What are you doing here, Elijah?"

1 Kings 19:13-15
When Elijah heard it, he pulled his cloak over his face and went out and stood at the mouth of the cave. Then a voice said to him, “What are you doing here, Elijah?” He replied, “I have been very zealous for the LORD God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, torn down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too.” The LORD said to him, “Go back the way you came, and go to the Desert of Damascus. When you get there, anoint Hazael king over Aram.

Also, the fact that we read that “ the word of the LORD came to him” and Elijah speaks as if He is face to face with someone leads me to believe he wasn’t just hearing a “disembodied voice” but we know from John 1 and Revelation 19:13 that there’s someone who is The Word.

Yet, despite those accounts of Moses and Elijah, we read in John 1:18

No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is Himself God and is at the Father's side, has made Him known.

So, like Ray said, every time someone in The Old Testament spoke with Jehovah, they were speaking with God but not The Father, it was The Pre-Incarnate Christ.

So, that leads me to think that the vision wasn’t just a pretend talk with Moses and Elijah, but a flashback for Jesus of when He spoke with The Prophets, maybe that’s why the disciples recognize it was Moses and Elijah, because despite never meeting them in person, the conversation they were having with Jesus probably was words we read about in Scripture. At least, that’s my two cents.

These are interesting scriptures Anjel, especially the Lord speaking with moses face to face  I wasn't aware of that scripture.  Amazing stuff.
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octoberose

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Re: Transfiguration , what if…
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2023, 02:16:02 AM »

Oops , yes Anjel . I’m going to bookmark this so I don’t forget this scriptures !
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