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God's judgements
Porter:
--- Quote from: Mzantsi on April 25, 2023, 04:16:46 PM ---How Jehovah judges us is frightening, his judgements are scary. Things such as the raping of women, killing of children and adults, causing people to be mentally ill...schidzophrenia pyschosis and the likes, physical famine and famine of hearing from the Lord, cancer and all sorts of sicknesses.
It appears we may do the same things when we are given power over the nations.
Jesus as a human does not kill,but Jesus as God kills many times.
It's crazy(remarkable,amazing) to think we gonna have such power if we are counted worthy.
--- End quote ---
Those are some pretty serious sins you are accusing God of. You've accused God of being a killer of children, you've accused God of being a rapist, you've accused God of sending sickness, and you've accused God of sending famine. Yet, you never once backed it up with Scripture. You didn't really just assume that everything you said wouldn't be challenged just because you read some verses that had the words "God" and "darkness" and "destroy" in it, did you?
Now, I'm willing to continue to give you the benefit of the doubt because maybe you have accused God in ignorance. So, listen carefully, as this is very elementary. If God created evil as stated in Isaiah 45:7 and Satan is evil, then that means God created Satan, who was given the job to kill and destroy. (Isa 54:16). Now wouldn't these accusations be better attributed to Satan who "was a murderer from the beginning" (Joh_8:44), rather than God? Because these accusations and this “job description” sound like something right up Satan's alley. Contrast Satan's work with the reason Jesus was revealed.
1Jn_3:8 The one who commits sin is of the Devil, for the Devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God was revealed for this purpose: to destroy the Devil's works.
You begin to get the idea that Satan was created as some kind of adversary for Christ.
H7854
שָׂטָן
śâṭân
saw-tawn'
From H7853; an opponent; especially (with the article prefixed) Satan, the arch enemy of good: - adversary, Satan, withstand.
Anyhow, I won't belabor this too much, as Ray has written extensively on this topic, so I highly suggest you go and read them. As it is, you are attributing the works of Satan to the works of God, which is pretty serious. And you say these things as someone who claims to be so scared of God's judgments. But maybe that's part of the problem. If you would stop being scared of God's judgments, you would stop trying to scare others. Let me assure you, you ain't gonna find too many in this forum, shaking like a reed in the wind over God's righteous judgements.
1Jn 4:16 And we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and the one who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.
1Jn 4:17 In this, love is perfected with us so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; for we are as He is in this world.
1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love; instead, perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. So the one who fears has not reached perfection in love.
I want to leave you with one last thing. You mentioned in another thread about someone who had lost their zeal. Now, I get the feeling you sincerely believe you would be doing God a service by killing your enemies. So, I found the perfect quote from one of Ray's paper's that I do hope will make you reconsider.
https://bible-truths.com/lake7.html
THE CHIEF OF SINNERS WAS THE PERFECT LAW KEEPER
Now then for the shocker! In I Tim. 1:15 we read this:
"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation [in other words, what Paul is about to say is the absolute truth and worthy of considerable contemplation] that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, OF WHOM I AM CHIEF"!!
I covered these verses in great detail in a previous installment. Paul REALLY WAS the WORST, PREEMINENT SINNER THAT HAS EVER LIVED. Paul was truly "CHIEF of sinners"!! And we read where Paul was once "BLAMELESS in the keeping of the law of Moses."
Now then, WHEN was Paul (1) "BLAMELESS IN LAW KEEPING"? And WHEN was Paul (2) "the CHIEF OF SINNERS"? The answer: AT THE SAME TIME!!!
WHEN PAUL HAD REACHED THE ZENITH OF TOTAL OBEDIENCE AND ZEAL TO GOD UNDER THE OLD COVENANT LAW OF MOSES, IT CAUSED HIM AT THE SAME TIME TO BE THE WORLD’S WORST SINNER!!!
Paul was both THE MOST PERFECT LAW-KEEPER AND THE WORLD’S WORST SINNER, AT THE SAME TIME!!!
NO WONDER PAUL WROTE:
"Who also makes us competent dispensers of a NEW covenant, NOT of the letter, but OF the spirit, for the letter KILLS but the spirit gives LIFE" (II Cor. 3:6).
The Old Covenant written in Ten Commandments on stone tablets was an "ADMINISTRATION OF DEATH" (Ver. 7). And the letter will ALWAYS KILL:
"They shall put you out of the synagogues; yea, the time comes, that whosoever KILLS YOU will think that he does God service [by following the law of Moses under the Old Covenant]" (John 16:2).
To prove to God his GREATEST ZEAL, Paul persecuted and slaughtered the church, which was legal for him to do under the authority of the High Priest, Chief Priests, Elders and Council at the Temple in Jerusalem, of whom Jesus Himself said, "They SIT IN MOSES SEAT." And it was this very ZEAL FOR GOD that also made him the world’s WORST SINNER! Unbelievable! UNBELIEVABLE!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
But we must believe it—it is the Word of God!
Dynamo54:
Porter, really appreciate your helping Mzantsi understand some basic things.
One thing you said caught my attention and I wanted to discuss it.
You stated that Satan was created as an adversary for Christ. Do you have a scripture for that? I know he is the adversary, but I see him as an adversary for us humans and not God. I don’t believe that anything can be an adversary to God because he is omnipotent. Satan is definitely our adversary and there is not way we can combat him and his minions without Christ in us….or else we lose every time.
I have been thinking that humans couldn’t easily understand “angels” or evil messengers until our present age where we have programmable machines and robots. Mankind thinks (at least it seems to me) that angels and demons have great power…and maybe that is so. However, none of them can do anything, or go past the bounds that God has set. They can’t even find out or understand certain things unless God allows it. Remember the scripture where Paul said even the angels want to know.
So I look at it that God has “programmed” them according to His desire and they cannot do otherwise. Understanding programming as we do makes me think that God doesn’t have to actively monitor the spirit world as he as most likely already set the bounds and knows the precise time for everything.
Just my thoughts. 😀
Porter:
Good question Dynamo. Of course, God doesn't have any natural Adversaries that could possibly do anything outside what God knew would happen or intended or caused to happen. However, there is wisdom in creating an Adversary such as Satan and hopefully, I can explain truthfully as to how creating an Adversary for or against Christ is beneficial and good. I'm obligated to tell you that Ray has already covered all of this. But since you asked me a legit question about something I said, I don't want to cop-out on you. So, I'll simply be explaining in my words how I understand Ray's teaching on this subject. However, maybe this is good for me in that it opens me up to correction which would lead me to a better understanding. I learn new things all the time from everyone here, and I'm as much a student of Christ as anyone. Also, if my words seem disjointed, it may be the thryoid meds I'm on. The meds tend to give me a fair bit of brain fog.
Remember when Jesus fasted 40 days and 40 nights in the wilderness for the express purpose of being tempted by the Devil?
Mat 4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the Devil.
Mat 4:2 After He had fasted 40 days and 40 nights, He was hungry.
As an Adversary, (or opponent as the Greek calls it), one of Satan's “duties” was to tempt Jesus in the wilderness. Obviously, Satan failed at getting Jesus to succumb to sin. It makes Satan sound like a terrible opponent, doesn't it? Especially considering Jesus was never meant to sin. But does that mean it was easy for Jesus to overcome all of Satan's temptations? The trials, temptations, afflictions, and tribulation Jesus endured were hard for Him as they are for us, even harder for Him, I imagine. Furthermore, the things Jesus endured have become our judgments, to make us perfect like He is perfect. And so, Jesus endured these things, so He could sympathize with our weaknesses to help us in our time of need.
Heb 4:14 Therefore since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens--Jesus the Son of God--let us hold fast to the confession.
Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tested in every way as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Therefore let us approach the throne of grace with boldness, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us at the proper time.
Equally important is the fact that Jesus overcame evil WITHOUT SINNING, thereby destroying the works of Satan. Guess what? Jesus also made it possible for us to do the same thing.
1Jn 4:17…because as he is, so are we in this world.
The many that Satan does succeed in getting to sin, the very sin of the world, is for His Elect's benefit.
1Jn 3:9 Everyone who has been born of God does not sin, because His seed remains in him; he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God.
1Jn 3:10 This is how God's children--and the Devil's children--are made evident. Whoever does not do what is right is not of God, especially (not exclusively) the one who does not love his brother.
1Jn 3:11 For this is the message you have heard from the beginning: we should love one another,
1Jn 3:12 unlike Cain, who was of the EVIL ONE and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil, and his brother's were righteous.
You begin to see how the role of Satan the Adversary is very beneficial to not only opposing Jesus and everything Jesus stands for, but to those that follow Him. Everything God created always has a good and beneficial purpose, even His enemies.
1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
1Jn 3:15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
So, even though our so-called brother hates us and murders us with that same hate, we have to love him by doing good to him, thereby overcoming and destroying the works of the Adversary in our lives. In this way, we are becoming sons of the Most High, just as Jesus is the Son of the Most High.
Luk 6:35 But love your enemies, do what is good, and lend, expecting nothing in return. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is gracious to the ungrateful and evil.
Luk 6:36 Be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.
Paul, an Apostle of Christ, is saying the same thing.
Rom 12:19 Friends, do not avenge yourselves; instead, leave room for His wrath [Greek: desire]. For it is written: Vengeance belongs to Me; I will repay, says the Lord. Rom 12:20 But If your enemy is hungry, feed him. If he is thirsty, give him something to drink. For in so doing you will be heaping fiery coals on his head.
Rom 12:21 Do not be conquered by evil, but conquer evil with good.
Your righteous INWARD act of love toward your hate filled Satan influenced brother, will not only save you now, but it will save the world with a fierce, passionate, heart and mind transforming HOLY fiery love in a “lake” of safety and security. And they will feel a heartfelt shame when they see when they see you give love so graciously despite of all their hate.
Psa 6:10 All my enemies will be ashamed and shake with terror; they will turn back and suddenly be disgraced.
Just like Jesus' righteous act toward you and me. When we were former enemies of Christ, and of the cross, where Jesus laid down His life for us to also rescue you and me from Satan's evil works of hate and sin and murder and death. I remember the shame I felt when I realized Jesus loved me by graciously dying for me, dying because of me, and then the realization that He died with me as a mortal Himself. None of this would be possible without Jesus first creating an evil Adversary and his children who sought to murder Him, which brought out the best in our Lord. Talk about truly inspiring, and talk about being worthy of a name above every name! I can't imagine the utter shame I will feel if I were to fail at loving my enemies just like Jesus did, knowing what I know now about how the WAY Jesus loves me. It truly would have been better to not have known any of this.
I know this is probably way more than you asked for Dynamo, so please forgive me for being so long-winded. I do hope I've answered your question. But I also want Mzantsi to know that I'm merely trying to feed his hunger, and quench his thirst, where with I too was fed in my hunger and given something to drink in my thirst. Truth be told, I need Jesus every day, all day because I can't overcome my sin without Him. This has been made painfully evident to me that without His nourishing life – giving body, I will die a second time in unfathomable age abiding shame and regret without having loved Him back. What better way to love Jesus, what better way to overcome my thirst and hunger, than by faithfully obeying Jesus and earnestly helping another in need. I can't, I better not have any ill will towards Mzantsi just because he said some words on the internet.
Whether Mzantsi does or whether he doesn't receive me or you or anyone here in Jesus' name, while it is still called today, Jesus will eventually prove His love for him. He will do so by giving His life to him in the most spectacular fashion imaginable.
Musterseed:
From the Myth of free Will , part C
To answer you question Dynamo54, and for all our admonition.
Gen.3:1- now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which
THE LORD GOD HAD MADE.
Job 26:13- By His Spirit He( God) has garnished ( adorned ) the heavens;
His hand has formed the crooked serpent.
Rev.12:9- and the great DRAGON, was cast out ,that old SERPENT, called the DEVIL,
and SATAN.
RAY,,,,, Is this not the same crooked serpent and dragon mentioned in Isa.27:1
which God shall yet punish?
In that day, the Lord with His sore and grate and strong sword shall punish
Leviathan the piercing serpent even Liviathan, that crooked serpent; and He shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.
The word leviathan means serpent.
The The word dragon means figuratively the constellation of the dragon,
a sea serpent.
God is not going to punish a constellation in the sky or a fish in the sea.
This is speaking of that great and wicked spirit. Satan, Satan the devil, that old serpent the dragon, the serpent, the crooked serpent, the destroyer, the accuser,
the ADVERSARY.
YE need to study The Myth Of Free Will Pt C.
You will learn , if God gives you understanding.
The purpose for which God created evil.
Jobs trials answers many Enigmas
The Kingdom of Satan and his role as an adversary.
Also, quote from Ray, “ here are all the Biblical example of what God ALLOWS.
1 Thes. 2:4- But as we were allowed ( GK. approved) of God to be put in trust
with the gospel.
That’s it! That’s it , that is the totality of everything that God allows.
God does not allow anything to happen: God is the ULTIMATE CAUSE of all things that happen.
Now a few biblical examples of what God causes to happen.
KEEP READING —— MOFW Pt. C
Dave in Tenn:
1Co 13:13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
Porter, you've added to my faith, hope, and love. As an emotionally stunted old curmudgeon, that's much appreciated.
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