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God's judgements
Porter:
Mzantsi, just to add to what Dave is saying, everything written in the Old Testament is for those “to whom the end of the ages has come” (1Co 10:11) and is meant for their spiritual admonition and edification. The Kings and armies God used (like a club in His hand) in the OT to violently overthrow and judge the sinful Kingdoms and cities, were also judged for being so arrogant about it. It's not for nothing that Paul states in the following verse: “Therefore, whoever thinks he stands must be careful not to fall!” (1Co 10:12)
All the Old Testament stories are like this. If you are to be a son of God, you must believe and understand that God desires mercy, not killing (Mat_12:7). Otherwise, Jesus warns: “all who take up a sword will perish by a sword” (Mat 26:52). One doesn't even have to own a sword to take a sword up, as this a spiritual condition of the heart. Those with Christ on the night of His arrest were ready to defend Him with violence and death. Peter even cut a man's ear off. As you know, Jesus healed that man's ear, the same man who was with those that were about to arrest Him because Jesus practices what He preaches. He loved His enemies, and then He died for His enemies.
It's true that Jesus had to be crucified, so prophecy could be fulfilled, but it is just as Isaiah says, “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, and your ways are not My ways.” (Isa 55:8)No one took Jesus' life because He laid it down voluntarily (Joh_10:18). Think about it. Jesus laid down His life, so we could learn how to stop resisting evil, how to have mercy, and how to love our enemies, not kill our enemies. “…with his stripes we are healed” (Isa_53:5). What do you suppose will happen when the world learns how to love its enemies at the hand of Christ and His Elect?
Isa 2:1 The vision that Isaiah son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem:
Isa 2:2 In the last days the mountain of the LORD's house will be established at the top of the mountains and will be raised above the hills. All nations will stream to it,
Isa 2:3 and many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us about His ways so that we may walk in His paths." For instruction will go out of Zion and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Isa 2:4 He will settle disputes among the nations and provide arbitration for many peoples. They will turn their swords into plows and their spears into pruning knives. Nations will not take up the sword against other nations, and they will never again train for war.
Nevertheless, it's not the world's time to learn, so they will keep on killing each other, and they will teach others how to kill too. However, it is a time to learn for those “to whom the end of the ages has come” (1Co 10:11). One does not even need to be a killer to be a real killer, as long as he has hate in his heart, he is a killer already. If God hates His enemies, wouldn't that make Him a killer too? Can one who hates his enemies and kills his enemies make his enemies alive again? Why would the one that hates his enemies want to do that? If the one that hates wanted them alive, he wouldn't have killed him in the first place.
I sincerely hope Mzantsi, that you are beginning to see God as a God of perfect love and mercy. So be perfect, like He is perfect. It's never ok to hate, it's never ok to stop loving, and it's never ever ok to kill.
Mzantsi:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on April 26, 2023, 12:33:03 AM ---If that's the "job description", I don't want it.
--- End quote ---
Dave,we not gonna bring wild animals that have grown used to the wild, into subjection, by having them sit down in a classroom and learn about Jesus.
As for me Dave, I look forward to the day of vengeance - payback time!
--- Quote from: Porter on April 27, 2023, 05:22:01 PM ---I sincerely hope Mzantsi, that you are beginning to see God as a God of perfect love and mercy. So be perfect, like He is perfect. It's never ok to hate, it's never ok to stop loving, and it's never ever ok to kill.
--- End quote ---
Port,I'm not sure what point you trying to make with your post, can't really follow whether you are agreeing or disagreeing with my statement.😀
Did my post suggest that I don't see God as perfect in love and mercy?😀
Dynamo54:
Porter, very well said, and very powerful.
I was just talking with my wife yesterday that I don’t see a wrathful God…I see a merciful and loving Father and Christ (who are one in all thought). Yes, vengeance is the Lord’s, but that does not mean he is full of wrath…quite the opposite. Some think that God will wreak terror and punishment on those resurrected. I don’t think so! The Father and Christ are love. I think about how much I love my children no matter what, and that God’s love transcends my love by magnitudes.
So, I see God dealing with love and mercy toward all that are resurrected to a second physical life in order to perfect them into sons and daughters. I don’t see wrath and vengeance in the white throne judgement. What would be the purpose? It appears that there will be punishment poured out on those alive at Christ’s coming, but remember that many will die at that time via those punishments. Are we to think that God will then resurrect those same people and punish them a second time in the white throne judgement? I just can’t see it.
Scripture says that God is love, and we see that truth in our lives with answered prayer and forgiveness and spiritual understanding. I don’t worship a God that will burn and punish mankind forever. I worship the God of mercy and love, and try to thank Him daily for being the God that He is.
Porter:
What can I say Mzantsi beside re-read, understand and believe Heidi's post? See how she understood Christ in the flesh in the beginning, but now she no longer knows Christ in the flesh. The others that responded are saying the same thing. If you can see it, then examine your heart and the words coming out of your mouth. Remember Jesus' words.
Luk 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
These aren't my words, but I believe them and I've seen them in myself too, back when I only knew Christ in the flesh.
--- Quote from: Dynamo54 on April 27, 2023, 11:41:13 PM ---Are we to think that God will then resurrect those same people and punish them a second time in the white throne judgement? I just can’t see it.
--- End quote ---
Exactly! God does not change. If He is healing His Elect through judgement now, what will be the end of those that are judged later by Christ and His Elect?
2Co 5:18 Now everything is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and GAVE US the ministry of reconciliation:
2Co 5:19 that is, in Christ, God was reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed the message of reconciliation to us.
Rom 5:18 So then, as through one trespass there is condemnation for everyone, so also through one righteous act there is life-giving justification for everyone.
Rom 5:19 For just as through one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so also through the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.
What do you think God means when He says, “Vengeance is Mine”? (Deu 32:35) I can tell you what Paul thinks, as he seems to know what Moses and even Heidi and the rest are SINGING about. This is a “new song” that hardly anyone has heard except those that now know Jesus by His Spirit.
Rom 12:19 Friends, do not avenge yourselves; instead, leave room for His wrath. For it is written: Vengeance belongs to Me; I will repay, says the Lord.
Rom 12:20 But If YOUR ENEMY is hungry, FEED HIM. If he is thirsty, GIVE HIM SOMETHING TO DRINK. For in so doing you will be heaping fiery coals on his head.
Rom 12:21 Do not be conquered by evil, but conquer evil with good.
Did you get that? God's wrath and vengeance consists of feeding His hungry enemies and giving His thirsty enemies something to drink. I can go on and on about what every verse in this song means, but then it would turn into another one of my walls of texts. So, I can only hope that you too will hear this Song of Moses.
seaofglass:
God’s judgment take different forms. It can be physical or mental.
My ex-mother in law finally called me up profusely apologizing for you conduct with me, after having an accident and almost losing her life but never converted
My present mother in law finally caved in and apologized after one month of agonizing paint with gangrene and had her leg cut off. But not converted
God takes one nation to punish another.
After losing my daughter and seeing the beast in me, I rather lose my leg.
Jesus mentioned some being beaten with more stripes than other. I wouldn’t wanna be Bill Gates on a mass suicide to destroy God’s creation.
What matters in life is not the experience but the lesson in it and did we learn it.
All according to His place in time.
Be blessed
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