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No condemnation
Porter:
I, too, experience the same self condemnation. I hear of it often from the members as well. I do wonder if we are just confusing self condemnation with God's discipline?
Heb 12:11 No discipline seems enjoyable at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it yields the fruit of peace and righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
Is there some other way we are saved, if not through pain, sorrow, and repentance? How many times, and how long, must we repent? As long as it takes for God's discipline to train us. Would God tell us to endure to the end if it wasn't necessary?
God likens the process of salvation to war—a war against the natural mind in lofty places. We all know how terrible war can be, and we are each fighting our wars.
Mat 24:6 You are going to hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, because these things must take place, but the end is not yet.
I really like these quotes from Ray on the subject because it gives me great hope and encouragement.
https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,11521.0.html
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation [Gk: adverse sentence, condemnation (regardless of what these detractors try to say, that not only does God pour out His indignation and wrath upon His elect, but He poured it out on His son all the days of His life, they say… nonsense )] to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Oh shoot, here’s something we have to do again. ‘Oh, I tried to walk after the spirit, not after the flesh, but I come up short.’ Some of you are shaking your head in agreement with that, you know what I’m talking about.
But here is another encouraging thought, “there’s no condemnation.” If you love Jesus and you love God and this is what you want, you’re on the right track.You might still be sinning, but you’re on the right track.
https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,4472.0.html
Rom 8:4 …who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
‘Oh Ray, now you blew it, you see I still do walk after the flesh sometimes.’ But where do you want to walk? ‘Well I want to walk after the spirit.’ Well, you’re back in.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death.
v. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
v. 4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
v. 5 For they that are after the flesh mind the things of the flesh;
Now if you find yourself minding the things of the flesh, you need to pray to God and cry out to help you and save you from that situation. You say this is not me, God, I don’t want to go here. I don’t want to do this, but my flesh is pulling me and I war, I need help, I need reinforcements. You cry out to God and that humbles you. Because you see that you can’t do it. If you could do it, then you would become self sufficient, and you wouldn’t need God. He will always Make you dependant on Him.
Dave in Tenn:
κατάκριμα
katakrima
kat-ak'-ree-mah
From G2632; an adverse sentence (the verdict): - condemnation.
Thayer Definition:
1) damnatory sentence, condemnation
"Therefor" indicates Paul is referring back to what he's already written. There is a "reason" why there is no condemnation (no adverse or damnatory verdict, the finding of the judge) and he laid that out in the first 7 chapters. The word itself is only used three times in the NT. The other two are also in Romans and precede this use. Rom_5:16 and Rom_5:18. Just those two alone are useful in understanding the case Paul is laying out and why he can say "Therefor".
The word in John 3 is different, but the meanings overlap. It is the verdict and the announcing of the sentence and can even include the carrying out of the sentence. "We" know that God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world. "We" know that God sent His Son into the world that the world should be saved (not "might" in the chancey sense) through Him. He that believeth on Him is not "condemned". He that does not believe is already/has already been condemned.
And what have they been found guilty of and sentenced? For what have they been condemned? Not for not believing. "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. (And the evidence is:) For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
So what if we do, or have done, the same evil the world does and has done? "He that believeth on him is not condemned". (And the evidence is that) he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
And that's how this thread started.
Dynamo54:
Porter, very interesting and very powerful comment! As I think about what you say about self condemnation being God’s discipline it rings true to me. And the scripture is spot on.
I guess the same old same old gets tiresome and frustrating. But then I have to remember that God never stops forgiving if we are sincerely repenting. It is funny sad….I am 68 and you would think I would be further down the road in my journey of overcoming. Satan wants me discouraged, and I sometimes fall into that frame of mind.
Thanks for the encouraging post.
anamnorris:
A NEWBEE TO THE FORUM: FOR THOSE OF US CONCERNED WITH OUR ACTIONS AS CHRISTIANS
Though at a given time we might still behave as in the past; even as the devil incarnate, this is part of what we have to go through in the school of life this side of God's universe is - - this all to eventually get to know God and Christ his Son in all their glory. Praised be them for all eternity for that too!! Paul, in Romans 8:38 tells us that in itself this needs not worry us: "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come. Nor height, nor depth, not any other creature (this is, not even us ourselves), shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. As important --and as we read in Ezequiel 36:26-27 as well-- Jeremiah 31-33 tells us that we are yet to receive a new heart from God (the one we have now will then be history!! Aleluya!!! "But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." ... this promise should put our mind at ease as we become more like Christ is -- we are not yet there, for while we are still on this earth we are still "running the race." In the meantime, let's keep close to our hearts his promise, "I will be with you always, even unto the end of the world." (Matthew 28:20)
ralph:
--- Quote from: anamnorris on March 10, 2023, 02:27:57 AM ---A NEWBEE TO THE FORUM: FOR THOSE OF US CONCERNED WITH OUR ACTIONS AS CHRISTIANS
Though at a given time we might still behave as in the past; even as the devil incarnate, this is part of what we have to go through in the school of life this side of God's universe is - - this all to eventually get to know God and Christ his Son in all their glory. Praised be them for all eternity for that too!! Paul, in Romans 8:38 tells us that in itself this needs not worry us: "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come. Nor height, nor depth, not any other creature (this is, not even us ourselves), shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. As important --and as we read in Ezequiel 36:26-27 as well-- Jeremiah 31-33 tells us that we are yet to receive a new heart from God (the one we have now will then be history!! Aleluya!!! "But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." ... this promise should put our mind at ease as we become more like Christ is -- we are not yet there, for while we are still on this earth we are still "running the race." In the meantime, let's keep close to our hearts his promise, "I will be with you always, even unto the end of the world." (Matthew 28:20)
--- End quote ---
Well said Ana and welcome! Nice to meet you.
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