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Work of the elect
Dave in Tenn:
My thoughts on this are similar to yours, Dynamo54. I certainly can't offer scriptural "proof" in support of these thoughts, but the saying of Jesus that the first shall be last and the last first may well give some insight into the timing of these matters. The "dead in Christ shall arise first", and other passages lean me towards a kind of "history in reverse" imagination. It's not a theological hill I am prepared to die on, but there it is regardless.
Musterseed:
Dave could you elaborate a little more on the passages you are talking about,
history in reverse. Thank you.
In two judgements by fire Ray said Babylon is rising again.
I have seen some scriptures that alludes to this but I am
reluctant to post anything I’m not sure about.
May God give us wisdom and endurance during this present time .
In Jesus name. Amen.
Musterseed:
Something just popped into my head.
Going backwards? Jer.7:24, Jer : 2:19, Jer.8:5, Jer: 15:6
Backwards. Backsliding, turning back etc. All these words mean APOSTASY.
FAITHLESSNESS.
Paul said things would get much worse. Am I on the right track here?
Dave in Tenn:
--- Quote from: Musterseed on March 26, 2023, 10:28:35 PM ---Dave could you elaborate a little more on the passages you are talking about,
history in reverse. Thank you.
--- End quote ---
Primarily, I was replying to Dynamo54's thoughts on the "structure/timetable" of the Kingdom future. Believe me, I'm not trying to cobble together an eschatology from bible verses. I have little to no anxiety about the wisdom of God to do with His creation whatever He wants--from beginning to end. But that doesn't mean I can't construct some mental imagery of what "will be". I'm only meat with a mind.
Jesus said the first will be last and the last first.
1Co 15:22 for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive,
1Co 15:23 and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,
1Co 15:24 then—the end, when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father...
Mat 11:9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet (referring to John the Baptist)? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
Mat 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Luk 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
Luk 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
Luk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
Luk 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
Luk 13:29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
Luk 13:30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.
Mat 21:31 ...Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
1Th 4:13 But it is our desire, brothers, that you may be certain about those who are sleeping; so that you may have no need for sorrow, as others have who are without hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we have faith that Jesus underwent death and came back again, even so those who are sleeping will come again with him by God's power.
1Th 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are still living at the coming of the Lord, will not go before those who are sleeping.
Eph 6:2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise;)
Eph 6:3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
Is there a better way to honor our "fathers and mothers" than to righteously judge them in the light of the Glorious Gospel?
2Co 5:18 And all things are from God, Who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 Which is, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them; and He has entrusted to us this message of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ; and God, as it were, is exhorting you through us. We beseech you on behalf of Christ, "Be reconciled to God."
So I'm not talking about "time running backwards" or any other such thing. I'm talking about the apparent order of things and the possibility that the "resurrection to judgement" and the GWT is not a single "event" (even among categories of people who "enter the kingdom" before others) but that it may begin with those at the "end" and proceed through the generations in reverse. One genealogy of Jesus runs forward. The other backwards. There may not be any reason for that other than the preference of the writers. But, then again, there might.
Regardless. All is of HIM, by HIM, and FOR HIM. Without HIM, there is nothing. Nothing at all. Nothing.
Musterseed:
Ha! Ha! I’m only meat with a mind. Me too Dave.
I agree with your mental imagery.
Jesus said the first will be last and the last first.
Matt.21:31.’’ The parable of the two sons.
It’s always about two isn’t it? Two groups, two covenants. Two witnesses
Etc…. Matt 20:16.’’’ Many called and few chosen.
Ray said the scriptures are multi- layered and I believe it.
This is another way I saw the first will be last and the last will be first and I may be totally wrong here but here goes.
The first ( chosen Israel will be last to enter the Kingdom) I thought because of
this verse. Isa.19:24.’ In that day shall Israel be a third with Egypt and with
Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land.
This is after the resurrection of course.
And the last( chosen Israel, God’s Elect) will be first to go into the kingdom.
When they are either resurrected from the grave or caught up with the Lord in the air. Im sure there are many more layers.
The kingdom future. Maybe that is where Paul went when God gave him a thorn
to keep him grounded. What did he see in paradise? Wow , now that would be some imagery.
Thank you Dave for all of the beautiful scriptures that outline Gods perfect will.
All appointed times and order will be kept’
Isaiah 26:9
Judgements bring godliness and overcoming. L. Ray Smith from they despise the
word of God.
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