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[octoberose]

I was hoping for more clarity on Jesus on the cross and the thief and what he said about Paradise.  Just saying that there’s a comma in the wrong place is not enough for me. Maybe that’s all there is, but I keep thinking there’s got to be more.  Paradise is a Garden - is that how it should be translated ?  That’s not heaven.  I get tripped up on this one thing.

[Musterseed]

2 Corth. 12:2.’ I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught
up to the third heaven………

VS.3.’’ How that he was caught up into paradise and heard unspeakable
words, which is not lawful for a man to utter.

Rev.12 :5.’’ And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with
a Rod of iron, and her child was caught up unto God, and to His throne.

G3857…..par-ad- i - sos, of oriental origin. A park, that is ( specifically) an Eden,
place of future happiness, paradise.

I would say that place is In Christ.

Caught up, G726, harpazo, Gi38, to seize ( in various applications)
catch ( away up) pluck, pull, take,( by force)

This is my understanding.

[Musterseed]

Octoberose, I was reading the transcript of They Despise The Word Of God
today and I came across this from Ray.

Rev.2:7….. to him that overcomes will I give to eat of the tree of life,
which is in the midst of the paradise of God .

The thief on the cross will be with Jesus in this judgment/ paradise. Luke 23:43

By the way, this transcript is very revealing.

In Christ, Pamela

[octoberose]

Where did you find that ?  I’ll read that for sure.  I’m not understanding the judgement/ paradise on the day they died- but how would they go through judgment at the same time ?    If what we teach ( and I believe it ) is that judgement comes after we are resurrected , Jesus was resurrected in three days and the thief is still dead.   This is going to take a while to understand !Thank you for any resources.

[Dave in Tenn]

My guess is, it's this one.  Pamela can correct me if I'm wrong.

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,7414.0.html

[Dave in Tenn]

Everything Jesus taught to those who were not His disciples (and much he taught even to them) was taught in parable.  I have no more reason to believe that what Jesus said to the thief meant the thief was "THAT DAY" going to be in some place called "PARADISE" than I have to believe that a man must first enter again to his mother's womb to be "born again" or a place called "Abraham's bosom".  Though I agree with Ray on where the comma should be placed (because that is where it makes the most sense), when I understand that the words of Jesus and Spirit and LIFE, it helps. 

I hear Jesus' words to be comfort, promise, and companionship.  Those, it seems to me, are what actually happened in those lives that "today."

I think your inclination to understand "paradise" is of more value than understanding commas.  Best wishes.
 

[ralph]

This just came to mind.  The criminal is being crucified with Christ.   This is connecting me to:

Galatians 2:20-21
20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Romans 6:5-6
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

There are two criminals, one on the left and one on the right.  One blasphemes God, and the other, though in extreme pain and about to die, demonstrates extraordinary Faith in God.  Two types of ourselves, the old man of sin and the man of God.

[Musterseed]

We are of the same understanding Ralph.

It’s the same theme throughout the whole Bible, the many called and the few
chosen. It’s in every parable.
The one thief ( a symbol for the few) believed Christ.
The other one ( a symbol for the many) didn’t. It’s for our admonition.

Thank you Dave , yes that’s the transcript, however it is on you tube as
end time prophecy 1 and 2 if you prefer to listen to it Octoberose.

[ralph]

We are of the same understanding Ralph.

It’s the same theme throughout the whole Bible, the many called and the few
chosen. It’s in every parable.
The one thief ( a symbol for the few) believed Christ.
The other one ( a symbol for the many) didn’t. It’s for our admonition.

Thank you Dave , yes that’s the transcript, however it is on you tube as
end time prophecy 1 and 2 if you prefer to listen to it Octoberose.

Yes, but the point I am making is that both criminals are a part of us. At one point in time, we were slaves of sin but that part is being done away with. The two criminals represent steps in our spiritual development. 

[Musterseed]

Yes indeed, All will be saved. 1 Tim. 2:4


It’s all about the process.Rom.8:20-22

[octoberose]

Thank you. I’m so focused on the crossing the t’s and dotting the i’s I don’t always see the truth of a thing.  What you all said makes sense to me.  Not sure I can explain it to anyone else, but I’ll try. Now, I’ll go listen to Ray. 

[Porter]

Where did you find that ?  I’ll read that for sure.  I’m not understanding the judgement/ paradise on the day they died- but how would they go through judgment at the same time ?    If what we teach ( and I believe it ) is that judgement comes after we are resurrected , Jesus was resurrected in three days and the thief is still dead.   This is going to take a while to understand !Thank you for any resources.

Hopefully, I'm understanding what you are asking. If so, this may help.

https://bible-truths.com/lake16-D5.htm

                                                                                WHEN DO GOD'S ELECT DIE ONCE BEFORE THEIR SECOND DEATH?

But how do the Elect "die once but after this Judgment?" It rather seems that they would receive Judgment [in this life] , and then after this [judgment] they would once die. No, the sequence is the same for the Elect as it is for the wicked: "And it is appointed unto men [including the Elect] once to die, but after this [after this necessary 'once to die' declaration, then follows...] , Judgment" (Heb. 9:27). And what did we learn Judgment is? Why, THE SECOND DEATH. There can only be a "second" death if it is first preceded by another death.

Now for the second part of the Heb. 9:27 riddle: When and how do God's Elect die "ONCE" before their SECOND death Judgment? Some of you should already be ahead of me with all the hints I have given you, but for the rest who haven't figured it out yet, you will maybe feel a little embarrassed when you see the answer, so here it is:

"Know ye not [no, of course the majority of Christendom 'knows not,' and that is why the physical aspects of baptism is so important to them...] ... know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into DEATH" (Rom. 6:3-4).

There is the answer to how God's Elect must "once die" before their "Second death Judgment."

The carnal world dies when they breathe their last and go down into the grave. God's Elect die when they are "baptized into death.". After resurrection from the dead, the world will enter into Judgment.