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Author Topic: I peter 3:19  (Read 5638 times)

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octoberose

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I peter 3:19
« on: May 03, 2023, 11:56:11 PM »

   I put this into the search and didn’t come up with what I was looking for.  Where is Ray’s commentary on Jesus being raised and preaching to the spirits in prison ? Thanks ya’ll .  :)
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octoberose

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Re: I peter 3:19
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2023, 09:54:52 AM »

You kind of miss the point of the discussion group.   I was a Christian for years and years and I asked God who he was and why he would make us, love us, die for us and then sentence us to a hellhole when we didn’t believe him.   About a week later I found this website.  It was as life changing as anything I’ve ever known.  At the right time , when I was ready, and when I was truly seeking the answers, God gave them to me. But this is the part you may not understand - I would Never have gotten there myself.  I would have had questions and doubts and places that I couldn’t fill in, but I would not have understood the things I do now without Rays insights.  And I don’t think this website or Ray’s writings are complete - how could they be ?  illness took him too soon (from a human perspective ) and he could never add anything else. I believe he was a good steward of the Truths that God gave him. We have a good foundation to go on from him and I’m grateful.  Rather than spending forever figuring it out, I just want to cut to the chase and read what Ray wrote and then go from there.    Trying to figure out scripture and Greek words and Hebrew words and context, etc. is not easy.
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octoberose

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Re: I peter 3:19
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2023, 10:17:22 AM »

I wrote that in response to a comment, but now the comments not there. How’d that happen ?  Well, my comment is still valid I think so that’s a little background  for anyone new.
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waterfall77

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Re: I peter 3:19
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2023, 12:51:16 PM »

Well said.  🙂
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: I peter 3:19
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2023, 02:11:42 PM »

I wrote that in response to a comment, but now the comments not there. How’d that happen ?  Well, my comment is still valid I think so that’s a little background  for anyone new.

That comment was rude and I deleted it as several others have been deleted and unfortunately the poster will have to be banned.
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Porter

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Re: I peter 3:19
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2023, 04:51:08 PM »

Rose, I searched high and low for where Ray may have taught on this specific verse, but was unable to find it, even though it's possible Ray did teach on it. I have a few ideas of my own about what that verse means, but I couldn't tie it all together.

Having re-read your second comment, it reminded me of a few things Paul said. I do sincerely hope it helps in some way.

1Co 12:29  Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all do miracles?
1Co 12:30  Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in languages? Do all interpret?
1Co 12:31  But desire the greater gifts. And I will show you an even better way.


The passage below is the better way.


1Co 13:1  If I speak the languages of men and of angels, but do not have love, I am a sounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
1Co 13:2  If I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so that I can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3  And if I donate all my goods to feed the poor, and if I give my body to be burned, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
1Co 13:4  Love is patient; love is kind. Love does not envy; is not boastful; is not conceited;
1Co 13:5  does not act improperly; is not selfish; is not provoked; does not keep a record of wrongs;
1Co 13:6  finds no joy in unrighteousness, but rejoices in the truth;
1Co 13:7  bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
1Co 13:8  Love never ends [Greek: fails]. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for languages, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end.
1Co 13:9  For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10  But when the perfect comes, the partial will come to an end.
1Co 13:11  When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put aside childish things.
1Co 13:12  For now we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, as I am fully known.
1Co 13:13  Now these three remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.


It's ok if you can't figure it all out, as long you can figure out how to love God and those around you. The passage above is a guide for showing us how to love. Here's another one.

2Pe 1:5  For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with goodness, goodness with knowledge,
2Pe 1:6  knowledge with self-control, self-control with endurance, endurance with godliness,
2Pe 1:7  godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.
2Pe 1:8  For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they will keep you from being useless or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9  The person who lacks these things is blind and shortsighted, and has forgotten the cleansing from his past sins.
2Pe 1:10  Therefore, brothers, make every effort to confirm your calling and election, because if you do these things you will never stumble.

I think part of the reason God has given so much knowledge to people like Ray, is so Ray could give to us a knowledge of Christ contrasted by evil, to teach us about Who Jesus really is. I think to be able to love in the ways described is harder than knowing all the things Ray taught. Jesus sums it up nicely.

Mar 12:28  One of the scribes approached. When he heard them debating and saw that Jesus answered them well, he asked Him, "Which commandment is the most important of all?"
Mar 12:29  "This is the most important," Jesus answered: Listen, Israel! The Lord our God, The Lord is One.
Mar 12:30  Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.
Mar 12:31  "The second is: Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these."

I, personally, can't think of a better thing to study to its fullest aside from these. If you already know these things, then great. Maybe someone else is struggling to figure it all out, so this is for them too.I've only just begun to understand some of these passages I quoted myself.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2023, 05:12:05 PM by Porter »
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Luk 22:31  "Simon, Simon, look out! Satan has asked to sift you like wheat.
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And you, when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

Musterseed

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Re: I peter 3:19
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2023, 10:58:30 PM »

I believe the spiritual match for 1 Peter 3: 19 is 1 Peter 4:6.

For this is why the gospel was preached even to those who are dead
that though judged in the flesh the way people are, they might live in the spirit
the way God does.

I think the spirits in prison of 1Peter 3:19 and the dead in 1Peter 4:6 are speaking of
spiritually dead who live in the flesh ( of the world) because you can’t preach to
physically dead people.

Jesus is the judge of the quick and the dead and so ….. Isa. 26: 9••• when they
judgement are in the earth the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Notice 1 Peter 3: 20••• because they formerly did not obey when Gods patience
waited in the days of Noah while the arc was being prepared in which a few, that
is eight persons were brought safely through water.
James 5:8••• You also be patient. Establish you hearts for the coming of the Lord is at hand.

Wonderful scriptures of inspiration and instruction Porter, Thank You.
Yes LOVE IS THE KEY💕
Pray for wisdom and endurance that we may be found worthy to do the The
Lord’s Will . Keep the unity of the Spirit. God Bless You All .

In Christ Pamela
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Musterseed

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Re: I peter 3:19
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2023, 10:08:17 AM »

These should help.

2Tim.1:16, Heb.10:34, Heb.13:3 and Matt.25: 31-46
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ZekeSr

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Re: I peter 3:19
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2023, 12:10:42 PM »

I am sure Ray commented on this, but I can’t say where. Nevertheless, he always said “Pay attention to all of the words.” And don’t add anything, for that matter.

I peter 3:19 says Jesus preached to spirits. Not he is preaching. We are not spirits. He was preaching to fallen angels (demons?) as they too will be judged.

Jud 1:6 He has also held in eternal chains those angels who did not keep their own position but abandoned their assigned place. They are held in deepest darkness for judgment on the great day.

Additionally, I know 1 Peter 3:18 and 3:19 are often used to show that our Savior died but wasn’t really dead. No, it doesn’t. It very plainly says He died in the flesh. Jesus died and was dead. When He was resurrected, He was made alive in the Spirit by our Father who is Spirit. Obviously, it was then that he preached to spirits in prison. The scriptures do not say He preached while He was dead in the flesh, nor does it say He was alive in the Spirit during His days and nights in the tomb.

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh…

Here are two versions, slightly different. In this case, I think the original KJV to be the more accurate. But either one is obvious if you read it and contemplate carefully.

 
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
 
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, indeed being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit;
1Pe 3:19 in which also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,


I believe that, after his resurrection, he went and preached to "those angels who did not keep their own position but abandoned their assigned place."

Mike


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Porter

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Re: I peter 3:19
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2023, 07:55:20 PM »

Good points, Pamela and Mike. Here's more Scripture to consider.

Eph 2:11  So then, remember that at one time you were Gentiles in the flesh--called "the uncircumcised" by those called "the circumcised," done by hand in the flesh.
Eph 2:12  At that time you were without the Messiah, excluded from the citizenship of Israel, and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, with no hope and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13  But now in Christ Jesus, you who were far away have been brought near by the blood of the Messiah.
Eph 2:14  For He is our peace, who made both groups one and tore down the dividing wall of hostility. In His flesh,
Eph 2:15  He did away with the law of the commandments in regulations, so that He might create in Himself one new man from the two, resulting in peace.
Eph 2:16  He did this so that He might reconcile both to God in one body through the cross and put the hostility to death by it.
Eph 2:17  When Christ came, He proclaimed [Greek: preached] the good news of peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near.
Eph 2:18  For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. 

That phrase spirits in prison from 1Peter 3:19 is very off-putting, isn't it. At least it was for me. I spent days just re-reading it from many translations, checking definitions, and searching all over the place in the bible for answers. So, I ignored that phrase for a while and started paying attention to the verses around it and decided that the passages I have listed made the most sense spiritually. Of course, I could be totally off, but what I did find concerning Eph 2:11-18 was new to me and was as equally fascinating as 1Peter 3:19, not to mention edifying.


Gal 3:20  Now a mediator is not for just one person, but God is one.
Gal 3:21  Is the law therefore contrary to God's promises? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that was able to give life, then righteousness would certainly be by the law.
Gal 3:22  But the Scripture has imprisoned everything under sin's power, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
Gal 3:23  Before this faith came, we were confined under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith was revealed.


The dividing wall of the law, this administration of death, is like a prison, like the prison that is sin and death. It keeps us separated from God through sin and through a deep-seated hatred for God, so it had to be dealt with. In dealing with it, Jesus, the mediator, could unite or reconcile the whole world to God.


1Ti 2:3  This is good, and it pleases God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4  who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5  For there is one God and one mediator between God and man, a man, Christ Jesus,
1Ti 2:6  who gave Himself--a ransom for all, a testimony at the proper time.


Looking at the definition of the word spirits from 1Peter 3:19, it seems clear to me, it's referring to those made of flesh and blood, but having the mind of Christ.


πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

We can know they were in fact flesh and blood because of the verse after 1Peter 3:19.


1Pe 3:19  In that state (Christ's risen state) He also went and made a proclamation [Greek: preached] to the spirits in prison
1Pe 3:20  who in the past were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah while an ark was being prepared; in it, a few--that is, eight people--were saved through water.

The spirits in prison were disobedient in the past, just as we were before Christ revealed Himself to us after His resurrection. If the ark represents Christ, what do we suppose Christ was being prepared for? Obviously, to baptize us into His death to pull down and destroy the deep-seated spiritual enmity between us and God, thereby giving us access to God; effectively revealing the Father to us after raising us back to a newness of spiritual life with a clean and clear conscience to God. That's why it's so important to believe our sins really have been forgiven.


1Pe 3:22  Now that He has gone into heaven, He is at God's right hand, with angels, authorities, and powers subjected to Him.

2Co 10:3  For although we are walking in the flesh, we do not wage war in a fleshly way,
2Co 10:4  since the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but are powerful through God for the demolition of strongholds. We demolish arguments
2Co 10:5  and every high-minded thing that is raised up against the knowledge of God, taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ.

The law was limited because it was a fleshy and temporary means of waging war against sin. The physical Law could never have completely removed sin and death, thereby imprisoning us in a cycle of sin and death.

Rom 8:1  Therefore, no condemnation now exists for those in Christ Jesus,
Rom 8:2  because the Spirit's law of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
Rom 8:3  What the law could not do since it was limited by the flesh, God did. He condemned sin in the flesh by sending His own Son in flesh like ours under sin's domain, and as a sin offering,
Rom 8:4  in order that the law's requirement would be accomplished in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

The Law demanded an offering for the forgiveness of sins; ensuring the cycle of offerings for sin. However, when Christ came, He fulfilled all the Law once and for all, so our sins could be permanently forgiven by offering Himself for and because of our sins.

Php 2:7  Instead He emptied Himself by assuming the form of a slave, taking on the likeness of men. And when He had come as a man in His external form,
php 2:8  He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death--even to death on a cross.
Php 2:9  For this reason God also highly exalted Him and gave Him the name that is above every name,
Php 2:10  so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow--of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth--
Php 2:11  and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Jesus didn't have to die, and no one took His life from Him. He offered Himself out of love and to bring us closer to Him and His Father by removing the enmity that imprisons us in sin and death. He also did it to show us how to be obedient to God in the Spirit. His outward works were a reflection of His inward Spirit.

While Ray may not have covered 1Peter 3:19 specifically, Ray did cover the same principles as described in 1Peter 3:19. I don't have the principles above completely nailed down, so it may be I haven't a clue as to what 1Peter 3:19 means. These are just other things to consider and things I remember from Ray and my studies. Take it all with a grain of salt.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2023, 08:27:43 PM by Porter »
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Luk 22:31  "Simon, Simon, look out! Satan has asked to sift you like wheat.
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And you, when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

ZekeSr

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Re: I peter 3:19
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2023, 08:46:25 AM »

Hello Porter. First, let me say that I appreciate the way you and so many have “done their homework”. Whether or not we come to a final agreement, it seems to me that the simple fact of digging in and studying is the more important aspect. Yes, we do want to know exactly what was meant by some of these confusing verses. And we must be careful not to do what the mainstream churches have done by twisting them into misleading dogma. But I learn so much simply from what myself and others have come across by searching the Scriptures. Often, this has little or nothing to do with the original intent of the study.

With that being said, I’m still not convinced that my opinion is necessarily incorrect. Even after examining the verses pointed out by yourself or others. In fact, studying some of them has deepened my own opinion. However, I’m not going to continue trying to debate the subject. I don’t believe it is necessary or constructive at this time. I believe we have all learned something from this and I will continue to ponder, study and consider. Perhaps that is the real purpose behind some of these confusing verses. And perhaps there is duality behind some of these issues in the same way that the Bible itself is dual in formation (a rather deep subject for another day—maybe too deep).

Mike
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Porter

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Re: I peter 3:19
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2023, 05:51:57 PM »

It's all good, Mike. For the record, I'm not making a stand of some sort with all that I wrote concerning 1Peter 3:19. Like you, I have no interest in debating anything for the same reasons. To me, if whatever we are discussing isn't edifying to the body of Christ, then it's not worth discussing. That's not to say unedifying discussions don't have a place here. And if I came off as sounding as though I wanted to debate, forgive me; it wasn't my intention.

I'm willing to continue discussing this, if the mods or any other forum members do not object. I'm sure we can find where Ray taught on things similar to what 1Peter 3 taught and go from there.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2023, 06:01:08 PM by Porter »
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Luk 22:31  "Simon, Simon, look out! Satan has asked to sift you like wheat.
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And you, when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

ZekeSr

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Re: I peter 3:19
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2023, 08:10:02 AM »

Hello Porter,
No, you did not come across sounding confrontational or off-putting. In retrospect, I can see my use of the word debate was not a good choice, especially in light of the ambiance of today’s world. So, I do apologize for that. I don’t have much more to add at the moment. Even so, I don’t object to further discussion. But I must say that my research into the Scriptures concerning this subject has taken me down some additional “rabbit holes” that I must explore. I don’t suppose it will ever cease in this natural life and I suppose that's the way it's meant to be.

Mike
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Musterseed

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Re: I peter 3:19
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2023, 11:50:33 AM »

Quote from Ray in the LOF Real Origin of Sin.

“ It is good for us that God makes us dig deep for the precious gems of His word.
It really is like searching for hidden treasure. And I have never found a hidden
treasure in God’s word that has disappointed me. Each new discovery brings me
more appreciation for God and His plan of salvation for all.”

I find that when I am searching the scriptures for something specific, God totally
leads me to something that I hadn’t even thought about and takes me to other
fields of nuggets. It’s like He’s saying “ ok , I know you want to know about this scripture but I want you to know these scriptures instead, and it goes on and on.
It’s so awesome how everything is connected and of course the connection is
always Jesus. Praise His Holy name. Let’s keep digging for those apples of gold
and pray for wisdom. May God Bless You All.

I am finding most scriptures and parables to be not only dual but multi- layered.
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Porter

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Re: I peter 3:19
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2023, 08:46:29 PM »

But I must say that my research into the Scriptures concerning this subject has taken me down some additional “rabbit holes” that I must explore.


I find that when I am searching the scriptures for something specific, God totally
leads me to something that I hadn’t even thought about and takes me to other
fields of nuggets. It’s like He’s saying “ ok , I know you want to know about this scripture but I want you to know these scriptures instead, and it goes on and on.


I am finding most scriptures and parables to be not only dual but multi- layered.

I'm beginning to think that the way you two described what happens when searching for one thing leads us to exploring and understanding other things better is the norm. It's like you said, Pamela, you begin to see how it's all connected as one and in One.

For instance, I “accidentally” discovered that when Paul said women (the Greek says wives) should keep silent and should not teach in the Church, it is actually a parable. It is a parable for how the wife or the Church and Bride of Christ should conduct Herself toward Her Husband, Jesus, and toward the whole world. Isn't this what Ray taught when he said the entirety of the bible is Jesus' biography, and whenever see mention of Israel it is talking about Jesus and His Elect Lady? 

Anyhow, the point is, I was looking for answers to 1Peter 3:19, but instead found answers to some other things I wasn't even looking for. This causes me to believe that 1Peter 3:19 is also tied in with Christ and His Elect and that there is a spiritual lesson in there for His Lady Elect, even if I don't fully understand that lesson at this time.
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Luk 22:31  "Simon, Simon, look out! Satan has asked to sift you like wheat.
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And you, when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

Dynamo54

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Re: I peter 3:19
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2023, 10:39:04 PM »

As usual, an interesting discussion.

I want to throw something out about this verse (I Peter 3:19). I too do not understand this verse, but it seems that many (not necessarily here) believe that “spirits” is talking about angels or demons or messengers. Now this could be so, but I am reminded by what I heard Ray say (on the video and audio). Ray said that God (and he was referencing the Father I believe at that time) is Spirit…He is NOT “A” spirit. That has always stuck with me.

So in this verse I am not sure the word “spirits” is talking about angels or demons. If God is not “a” spirit then how can we assume that he is talking about “spirits” in the vein of a being.

I don’t know the answer but am open to discussion. From when I heard
Ray say that I have tried to keep the idea of God having a “figure” (for want of a better word/definition) out of my mind. Rays says that God is EVERYWHERE….and it seems that precludes a finite “body”. But then scripture references man being raised with a spiritual body. These concepts are hard to fathom. I just have to remember that one day Christ will make it all plain.
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indianabob

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Re: I peter 3:19
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2023, 11:30:54 PM »

As usual, an interesting discussion.

I want to throw something out about this verse (I Peter 3:19). I too do not understand this verse, but it seems that many (not necessarily here) believe that “spirits” is talking about angels or demons or messengers. Now this could be so, but I am reminded by what I heard Ray say (on the video and audio). Ray said that God (and he was referencing the Father I believe at that time) is Spirit…He is NOT “A” spirit. That has always stuck with me.

So in this verse I am not sure the word “spirits” is talking about angels or demons. If God is not “a” spirit then how can we assume that he is talking about “spirits” in the vein of a being.

I don’t know the answer but am open to discussion. From when I heard
Ray say that I have tried to keep the idea of God having a “figure” (for want of a better word/definition) out of my mind. Rays says that God is EVERYWHERE….and it seems that precludes a finite “body”. But then scripture references man being raised with a spiritual body. These concepts are hard to fathom. I just have to remember that one day Christ will make it all plain.

Hi Dynamo,

Please let me try this out on your thought processes.
spirit is just breath or breathe or pushing oxygen into a created human.
spirit is defined by a comparison to wind. It is powerful and effective but unseen to our fleshly eyes.
We  know something of what it can do, but we do not know what it is.
=
So when we define God as spirit it just means invisible and undefined or unknown...a mystery to humans, and we are to just accept that it will remain a mystery or secret until God reveals more about it.
So we can "presume" that God, the only true God without beginning is the source of all else including the person of Christ who was created before all else that God created through Christ. O. K?
First father god created Christ and then empowered Christ to create everything else even the celestial realm.
You know the rest of the story from Gen. 1

Comment please, Bob
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Porter

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Re: I peter 3:19
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2023, 01:09:21 AM »

Excellent point Dynamo. I did a search on where Ray spoke of spirit by the definition given below (which I'm not totally sure is the best definition we have):

πνεῦμα

pneuma

pnyoo'-mah

From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.


https://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm


"REBIRTH/BORN AGAIN: "...that which is conceived [Gk: gennao] in her is of the Holy Spirit... Now when Jesus was born [Gk: gennao] in Bethlehem..." (Matt. 1:20 & 2:1). Notice that words "conceived" and "born" are both translated from the same one Greek word gennao. So what are we to do with this verse: "Except a man be born [Gk: gennao] again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3). Should this verse read: " born again," or " begotten anew?" I once believed this verse should be "begotten" rather than "born," seeing that no one is literally "born" again in this life, but I now believe that context forbids this translation. But how can Believers be literally born again in this life based on the context of Jesus' statement:
 "That which is born of the flesh [that's all of us] IS FLESH [that too is all of us] and that which is born of the Spirit [are we now born of the Spirit? NO, and here's why...] ...that which is born of the Spirit IS SPIRIT" (John 3:6). Is anyone human flesh and at the same time SPIRIT? No, I think not. Jesus adds more proof of what it is like to be "born of the Spirit" - "The wind [Gk: pneuma-'spirit'] blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound thereof, but can not tell whence it comes, or whether it goes: so is everyone that is BORN of the Spirit" (Verse 8) . Right there are three reasons why no one except Jesus has been born of the Spirit: [1] We are not composed of spirit, [2] We are not powerful like the wind, [3] Neither are we invisible like the wind.
And so, we as Believers as "conceived" by the Spirit of God and have the "earnest" of His Spirit (Eph. 1:14), but we will not be born again (or anew) until we are resurrected with "incorruptible, glorified, powerful, SPIRITUAL bodies" - like the WIND (I Cor. 15:42-44)."




https://bible-truths.com/trinity.html



"The holy spirit is something that God the Father possesses--it is not a separate, third god or deity of some fabled trinity. The spirit "of" God is "God's" spirit. And notice that God offers His spirit as a gift to those who ask:"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:13) The holy spirit is not an entity of its own, but is rather a possession of God which He gives to us.
And notice that even the King James Version in this verse uses the word Spirit instead of Ghost as they normally do in translating the same identical Greek word pneuma.
We read in the latter chapters of John's gospel just how intimate and loving and close Jesus is with His Father and His Father with Him. This is emphasized over and over again dozens of times in the Scriptures. However, there is NO SUCH INTIMACY mentioned between the holy ghost [spirit] and the Father or with Jesus Christ. The reason is clear. The holy spirit of God is not a deity or god with a personal relationship with the Father or Christ, but is rather THEIR spirit. We will show from Scripture that both the Father and His Son have, and posses "holy spirit," and that They BOTH impart that same spirit to US! And that is how they BOTH dwell with us and in us and make their abode with us (John 14:23).
The holy spirit is not the sister of Jesus, nor the brother, nor the mother and certainly not a SECOND Father! It is futile to try and make the holy spirit into a "god" distinct from Jesus Christ and God the Father. Again, Jesus said that He and His Father are ONE. He never said that He and the holy spirit are ONE. It is rather THROUGH the holy spirit that the Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son, and we are in Christ and Christ is in us and the Father is in us!"


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Luk 22:31  "Simon, Simon, look out! Satan has asked to sift you like wheat.
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And you, when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

Musterseed

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Re: I peter 3:19
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2023, 11:04:40 AM »

Good morning all.
Remember Ray spoke about how he thought he would be studying the four
gospels but was now studying physics, quantum mechanics, geology etc.

He said we need to know how the universe works.
Remember he spoke about the laws of thermodynamics and how
the second law of thermodynamics is working on all matter as we
speak. The physical ( matter) is passing away. What is matter but
atoms. Every thing is made of atoms, and very fine things, invisible
things, not nothing.
Lately I have been reading about quantum entanglement, two particles
that no matter how far from each other in the universe , they are connected.
And there is so much more.
God’s Kingdom comes without observation, we can’t see it but it’s there, in us.
What is spirit? Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit, of His Father who gave it to Him.He keeps everything together . Jesus is everything, even the furniture in the temple.
Remember this statement, the bird is in the air and the air is in the bird.
And this one,the fish is in the ocean and the ocean is in the fish. In the sparrows
so small , in the tree tops so tall. This is highly supernatural wisdom, power and intelligence that we can’t totally grasp yet, it’s too high , it’s a spiritual realm.
Like Ray said ,” we are not physical beings living in a spiritual world, we are
spiritual beings living in a physical world and the physical ( carnal mind ) has got to go. It’s a difficult process for humanity but it’s necessary. I probably should be
giving scripture but I just got up and on my first coffee, but I have been thinking
about this for quite some time. Let’s pray for Our Great God to open up our minds
to His amazing universe. God is everywhere.

Porter , yes , I also heard Ray say that in the Old Testament whenever the scriptures
reference Israel , they are talking about Jesus and if about Jesus also the Elect.

Remember,, the Elect are the Israel of God, the new one , the heavenly , no longer
the physical. I think this is the scripture pertaining to it.

Luke 24:27…. And beginning with Moses and all the prophets, He interpreted to
them in all the scriptures, the things concerning Himself.
There are many scriptures attached to this if you have e~sword, quick and easy
to attain.

The symbolic words are really paramount to understanding. Yes the woman is
the Elect , the virgin, the pure bride, the wife etc.
But also there is another woman , who is a whore, fornicating with her many lovers
( other nations, of people’s and tongues etc) Our Lord Will Not be married to her.
He will destroy her. But of course this will all lead to salvation for all peoples
everywhere . Our God is awesome and I am so excited about all humanity
bowing to Him , I really want to see that. The best day of my life was the day
God caused me to believe that He is real.💕

Oh and let’s not forget the theme throughout the whole Bible and what all
the parables are about. The many called and the few chosen. It’s everywhere .
A little leaven leaven’s the whole lump.
God Bless You All.
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" No man can come to me,except the Father draw him"
                                   (John 6: 44)

Porter

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Re: I peter 3:19
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2023, 08:25:19 PM »

Thanks for all the reminders, Pamela, it really helped. I think everyone made some good points inline with what the spirit is saying. As for me, I had forgotten that the word, prison, can be symbolic of tribulation and judgment. In the case of Act 26:10 it could also be a literal prison where some disciples awaited judgment, where Saul (before God named him Paul) voted to have them be put to death. I guess that phrase spirits in prison really threw me a curveball. It got to the point I hated that phrase and wanted to curse it.  ::) I know that sounds pathetic, but it's the truth.

When I realized how many other truths 1Peter 3:19 was connected to, it made it really hard for me to tie it all together in my head.
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Luk 22:31  "Simon, Simon, look out! Satan has asked to sift you like wheat.
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And you, when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."
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