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I peter 3:19
Dynamo54:
As usual, an interesting discussion.
I want to throw something out about this verse (I Peter 3:19). I too do not understand this verse, but it seems that many (not necessarily here) believe that “spirits” is talking about angels or demons or messengers. Now this could be so, but I am reminded by what I heard Ray say (on the video and audio). Ray said that God (and he was referencing the Father I believe at that time) is Spirit…He is NOT “A” spirit. That has always stuck with me.
So in this verse I am not sure the word “spirits” is talking about angels or demons. If God is not “a” spirit then how can we assume that he is talking about “spirits” in the vein of a being.
I don’t know the answer but am open to discussion. From when I heard
Ray say that I have tried to keep the idea of God having a “figure” (for want of a better word/definition) out of my mind. Rays says that God is EVERYWHERE….and it seems that precludes a finite “body”. But then scripture references man being raised with a spiritual body. These concepts are hard to fathom. I just have to remember that one day Christ will make it all plain.
indianabob:
--- Quote from: Dynamo54 on May 10, 2023, 10:39:04 PM ---As usual, an interesting discussion.
I want to throw something out about this verse (I Peter 3:19). I too do not understand this verse, but it seems that many (not necessarily here) believe that “spirits” is talking about angels or demons or messengers. Now this could be so, but I am reminded by what I heard Ray say (on the video and audio). Ray said that God (and he was referencing the Father I believe at that time) is Spirit…He is NOT “A” spirit. That has always stuck with me.
So in this verse I am not sure the word “spirits” is talking about angels or demons. If God is not “a” spirit then how can we assume that he is talking about “spirits” in the vein of a being.
I don’t know the answer but am open to discussion. From when I heard
Ray say that I have tried to keep the idea of God having a “figure” (for want of a better word/definition) out of my mind. Rays says that God is EVERYWHERE….and it seems that precludes a finite “body”. But then scripture references man being raised with a spiritual body. These concepts are hard to fathom. I just have to remember that one day Christ will make it all plain.
--- End quote ---
Hi Dynamo,
Please let me try this out on your thought processes.
spirit is just breath or breathe or pushing oxygen into a created human.
spirit is defined by a comparison to wind. It is powerful and effective but unseen to our fleshly eyes.
We know something of what it can do, but we do not know what it is.
=
So when we define God as spirit it just means invisible and undefined or unknown...a mystery to humans, and we are to just accept that it will remain a mystery or secret until God reveals more about it.
So we can "presume" that God, the only true God without beginning is the source of all else including the person of Christ who was created before all else that God created through Christ. O. K?
First father god created Christ and then empowered Christ to create everything else even the celestial realm.
You know the rest of the story from Gen. 1
Comment please, Bob
Porter:
Excellent point Dynamo. I did a search on where Ray spoke of spirit by the definition given below (which I'm not totally sure is the best definition we have):
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.
https://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm
"REBIRTH/BORN AGAIN: "...that which is conceived [Gk: gennao] in her is of the Holy Spirit... Now when Jesus was born [Gk: gennao] in Bethlehem..." (Matt. 1:20 & 2:1). Notice that words "conceived" and "born" are both translated from the same one Greek word gennao. So what are we to do with this verse: "Except a man be born [Gk: gennao] again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3). Should this verse read: " born again," or " begotten anew?" I once believed this verse should be "begotten" rather than "born," seeing that no one is literally "born" again in this life, but I now believe that context forbids this translation. But how can Believers be literally born again in this life based on the context of Jesus' statement:
"That which is born of the flesh [that's all of us] IS FLESH [that too is all of us] and that which is born of the Spirit [are we now born of the Spirit? NO, and here's why...] ...that which is born of the Spirit IS SPIRIT" (John 3:6). Is anyone human flesh and at the same time SPIRIT? No, I think not. Jesus adds more proof of what it is like to be "born of the Spirit" - "The wind [Gk: pneuma-'spirit'] blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound thereof, but can not tell whence it comes, or whether it goes: so is everyone that is BORN of the Spirit" (Verse 8) . Right there are three reasons why no one except Jesus has been born of the Spirit: [1] We are not composed of spirit, [2] We are not powerful like the wind, [3] Neither are we invisible like the wind.
And so, we as Believers as "conceived" by the Spirit of God and have the "earnest" of His Spirit (Eph. 1:14), but we will not be born again (or anew) until we are resurrected with "incorruptible, glorified, powerful, SPIRITUAL bodies" - like the WIND (I Cor. 15:42-44)."
https://bible-truths.com/trinity.html
"The holy spirit is something that God the Father possesses--it is not a separate, third god or deity of some fabled trinity. The spirit "of" God is "God's" spirit. And notice that God offers His spirit as a gift to those who ask:"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:13) The holy spirit is not an entity of its own, but is rather a possession of God which He gives to us.
And notice that even the King James Version in this verse uses the word Spirit instead of Ghost as they normally do in translating the same identical Greek word pneuma.
We read in the latter chapters of John's gospel just how intimate and loving and close Jesus is with His Father and His Father with Him. This is emphasized over and over again dozens of times in the Scriptures. However, there is NO SUCH INTIMACY mentioned between the holy ghost [spirit] and the Father or with Jesus Christ. The reason is clear. The holy spirit of God is not a deity or god with a personal relationship with the Father or Christ, but is rather THEIR spirit. We will show from Scripture that both the Father and His Son have, and posses "holy spirit," and that They BOTH impart that same spirit to US! And that is how they BOTH dwell with us and in us and make their abode with us (John 14:23).
The holy spirit is not the sister of Jesus, nor the brother, nor the mother and certainly not a SECOND Father! It is futile to try and make the holy spirit into a "god" distinct from Jesus Christ and God the Father. Again, Jesus said that He and His Father are ONE. He never said that He and the holy spirit are ONE. It is rather THROUGH the holy spirit that the Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son, and we are in Christ and Christ is in us and the Father is in us!"
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Musterseed:
Good morning all.
Remember Ray spoke about how he thought he would be studying the four
gospels but was now studying physics, quantum mechanics, geology etc.
He said we need to know how the universe works.
Remember he spoke about the laws of thermodynamics and how
the second law of thermodynamics is working on all matter as we
speak. The physical ( matter) is passing away. What is matter but
atoms. Every thing is made of atoms, and very fine things, invisible
things, not nothing.
Lately I have been reading about quantum entanglement, two particles
that no matter how far from each other in the universe , they are connected.
And there is so much more.
God’s Kingdom comes without observation, we can’t see it but it’s there, in us.
What is spirit? Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit, of His Father who gave it to Him.He keeps everything together . Jesus is everything, even the furniture in the temple.
Remember this statement, the bird is in the air and the air is in the bird.
And this one,the fish is in the ocean and the ocean is in the fish. In the sparrows
so small , in the tree tops so tall. This is highly supernatural wisdom, power and intelligence that we can’t totally grasp yet, it’s too high , it’s a spiritual realm.
Like Ray said ,” we are not physical beings living in a spiritual world, we are
spiritual beings living in a physical world and the physical ( carnal mind ) has got to go. It’s a difficult process for humanity but it’s necessary. I probably should be
giving scripture but I just got up and on my first coffee, but I have been thinking
about this for quite some time. Let’s pray for Our Great God to open up our minds
to His amazing universe. God is everywhere.
Porter , yes , I also heard Ray say that in the Old Testament whenever the scriptures
reference Israel , they are talking about Jesus and if about Jesus also the Elect.
Remember,, the Elect are the Israel of God, the new one , the heavenly , no longer
the physical. I think this is the scripture pertaining to it.
Luke 24:27…. And beginning with Moses and all the prophets, He interpreted to
them in all the scriptures, the things concerning Himself.
There are many scriptures attached to this if you have e~sword, quick and easy
to attain.
The symbolic words are really paramount to understanding. Yes the woman is
the Elect , the virgin, the pure bride, the wife etc.
But also there is another woman , who is a whore, fornicating with her many lovers
( other nations, of people’s and tongues etc) Our Lord Will Not be married to her.
He will destroy her. But of course this will all lead to salvation for all peoples
everywhere . Our God is awesome and I am so excited about all humanity
bowing to Him , I really want to see that. The best day of my life was the day
God caused me to believe that He is real.💕
Oh and let’s not forget the theme throughout the whole Bible and what all
the parables are about. The many called and the few chosen. It’s everywhere .
A little leaven leaven’s the whole lump.
God Bless You All.
Porter:
Thanks for all the reminders, Pamela, it really helped. I think everyone made some good points inline with what the spirit is saying. As for me, I had forgotten that the word, prison, can be symbolic of tribulation and judgment. In the case of Act 26:10 it could also be a literal prison where some disciples awaited judgment, where Saul (before God named him Paul) voted to have them be put to death. I guess that phrase spirits in prison really threw me a curveball. It got to the point I hated that phrase and wanted to curse it. ::) I know that sounds pathetic, but it's the truth.
When I realized how many other truths 1Peter 3:19 was connected to, it made it really hard for me to tie it all together in my head.
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