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Revelation chaper 6

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waterfall77:
Revelation chapter 6,
When do these events happen, when Jesus comes back to rule and reign or before he comes? Or does it mean something intirely different?
Aubrey

indianabob:

--- Quote from: waterfall77 on June 03, 2023, 04:13:16 PM ---Revelation chapter 6,
When do these events happen, when Jesus comes back to rule and reign or before he comes? Or does it mean something intirely different?
Aubrey

--- End quote ---

Hi Aubrey,
I don't have a comprehensive answer to your valid question, but my understanding is as follows.
Jesus is returning to rule the whole world's population and to replace, at least in the beginning, the existing human government. So when he returns he must first establish his authority and his right to rule. To do that he must first put down all opposition and the opposition or former opposition must really believe that they cannot oppose his rule any longer. Yes they can still be stubborn and uncooperative, but they must SEE his tremendous power in operation so that they realize how futile it is to offer open resistance with any puny power of their own. For example our nuclear weapons will have been snuffed out with only his spoken word, like a man squeezing the end of a cigarette to put out the flame. It must be an obvious demonstration that every military general recognizes so that they realize that they are helpless in the face of his absolute supreme power.
So yes I do believe that the events in Rev 6 are the real thing.
Bob

Porter:
Here are a few quotes from Ray that may help. Hopefully, after copying and pasting, it doesn't get formatted incorrectly.


How Hard is Getting Saved?

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,3849.0.html

"All these things take a lifetime. We’re going to live "the seals." A third part of the man died... that’s a third part of the man in us that is going to die, a third part of the carnality. God works in increments, He wipes out some of the trees and then He burns some of the grass… what is the trees and the grass? These are all things in us. We have islands, and mountains, and trees, and grass. All of these are belief systems and ideas and doctrines and philosophies of life and all these things. They are all going to be burned out and broken down and destroyed. All of those seven seals, seven trumpets, seven plagues, they are all things that must happen in our lives.

You say, 'Well I don’t remember any trees being burned down.' First of all, you won’t even know some of it is happening until it’s over. Some of you will remember, I have this in my Lake of Fire Series: “And I was in the spirit on the Lord’s Day and I heard a voice BEHIND me as the voice of a trumpet and I turned to see the voice that spoke to me and being turned I saw…” You won’t see some of these things until they are behind you. You’re going to have to look behind you to see where you came from, to see where God has been taking you. Some of us wouldn’t want to live tomorrow if we knew what was coming, you know. Be thankful that you don’t know everything that’s coming. Be thankful that you only have to take one day at a time. You don’t want to know what every day has to hold. Take it one day at a time as God presents it to you."


https://bible-truths.com/lake7.html

"SEVEN MEANS COMPLETE

The Sabbath or "seventh day" COMPLETES the week. Daniel's famous prophecy was

    "SEVENTY weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish [complete] the transgression, and to make an end [complete] of sins..." (Dan. 9:24).

Seven seals, seven trumpets, and seven plagues complete God's wrath on mankind. Seven is used over six hundred times in Scriptures. Check if your wish, to see how many times seven shows completeness.

Therefore, how many churches complete THE WHOLE CHURCH OF GOD?

    "...write in a book and send it unto the SEVEN churches which are in Asia..." (Rev. 1:11).

Were there not churches (congregations) also in Judea as well? Even in Rome? Why only the seven churches "in ASIA?" Because these seven congregations completed all that Jesus had to say to all congregations, everywhere. This is a COMPLETE revelation for ALL CHURCHES. These seven congregations had within them all of the sins, weaknesses, and shortcomings of all congregations everywhere during ALL TIME. I will make this abundantly and Scripturally clear. But on the positive side, all of the churches had at least a "few names" that were not spiritually defiled, and who will be in the first resurrection as Sons and Daughters of God to bring the rest of the harvest, the great fall harvest into the Kingdom.

These churches that personify in symbol all of God's church for the past two thousand years, are in fact, the training ground and the proving ground for the elect. Coming out of this carnal system puts one among the called and the chosen and the VERY elect. Paul called it "the HIGH CALLING."

When you go through the messages to the seven churches, you will see a reiteration of the same problems in all the congregations.

It would take me twenty pages to reiterate all the similarities of both sins and rewards found in all seven church congregations, which represent the whole church of God throughout all generations. Here are just a few things that absolutely prove that these seven churches represent God's complete church though all generations. This is not a dissected church divided up into particular or separate dispensations, ages, or eras.

THE SEVEN CHURCHES ARE ONE CHURCH

    Jesus says that the seven messengers and the seven churches are all, "...in My right hand..." (Rev. 1:20). ONE hand-they are all ONE.
     
    "These things say He that...walks in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks [addressed to Epheus, but for ALL SEVEN CHURCHES]" (Rev. 2:1).
     
    "He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says unto...[unto WHOM? Unto Ephesus only? No, read it] ...unto the churches" [ALL SEVEN CHURCHES]" (Ver. 7).
     
    God wants ALL the churches to hear what He addresses to Ephesus. And He wants Ephesus to hear what He addresses to Smyrna, "He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says unto the churches" (Ver. 11, 17, 29, 3:6, 13, 22). All the churches are to hear what is spoken to ALL the other churches.
     
    To Ephesus, we find, "He...Who walks in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks [plural]" (Rev. 2:1), must mean that He also walks in the midst of Smyrna too, and Pergamos, and Thyatira, and Sardis, and Philadelphia, and Laodicea ALSO.
     
    Of Ephesus we read, "...to him that OVERCOMES will I give to eat of the TREE OF LIFE..." (Ver. 7).
     
    Do those who "overcome" in Smyrna get "a crown of life" (Ver. 10), but are NOT allowed to "eat of the tree of life?"
     
    Can those in Pergamos who overcome "eat of the hidden manna" (Ver. 17), but are NOT allowed to "eat of the tree of life" as are those in Ephesus?
     
    Does neither Ephesus nor Smyrna get "a crown of life" as do the overcomers of Pergamos? Are the overcomers of Thyatira given "...power over the nations," albeit, they will NOT be allowed, "...to sit down with Me [Jesus] in My throne...." as will the overcomers in Laodicea (3:21)?
     
    Are the overcomers in Pergamos given "...a new name..." (Ver. 17), but do NONE of the other churches also get this new name? The overcomers in Sardis have Christ's promise that, "I will NOT blot out his name out of the book of life" (3:5).
     
    Is it Sardis ONLY that has this promise? How could Smyrna not have her name in the book of life, since she is given "A crown of LIFE?"
     
    Are not "thy works" mentioned in ALL seven churches? Is not "overcoming" mentioned in ALL seven churches? Are not rewards promised in ALL seven churches? How could Laodicea be "lukewarm" (Rev. 3:16), except that she also "left her first love" (Rev. 2:4)? Or how could Sardis be spiritually DEAD (3:1), except that she also "left her first love?"
     
    Does Jesus "walk in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks [plural] (Rev. 2:1), but speaks by the words of God, "...He which has the sharp sword with two edges [Heb. 4:12]..." to Pergamos only (Ver. 12)?
     
    Does Jesus Christ, Who has "...the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars..." (3:1), which are the seven messengers of the SEVEN churches (plural), speak by only one Spirit to one church (Sardis)? NO! Every church is admonished to "...hear what the Spirit says unto the churches."
     
    Why should Smyrna or Pergamos listen to the Spirit's message to Ephesus who "...left their first love?"

Is any so foolish as to think Jesus tells all seven churches to "...hear what the Spirit says to the churches" (all the other plural churches), so that they can compare themselves among themselves and see which one Jesus thinks is the holiest of them all? That is nonsense!

ALL seven churches individually, have ALL the problems and ALL the strengths of all the churches combined. It is ONE prophecy, of ONE church, in ONE hand of Jesus, which combine the characteristics of seven churches in Asia that shared all of the good qualities and all of the shortcomings. Some think that Smyrna and Philadelphia did not have any shortcomings. They did. The Scriptures prove it. We will cover that in Part VIII.

All seven churches were spiritually "lukewarm," which is like being spiritually "dead," because they all "left their first love," and they all had a members who "say they are Jews [spiritually circumcised and converted], and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan," and all the congregations of the churches of God down through the generations have been ruled over by the "Nicolaitanes."

ALL SEVEN CHURCHES HAD ALL OF THE PROBLEMS THAT EACH OTHER HAD, AND ALL OF THE CHURCHES OF GOD DOWN THROUGH THE GENERATIONS HAD ALL OF THE PROBLEMS THAT THE SEVEN CHURCHES OF REVELATION HAD. IT IS A PROPHECY OF THIS VERY CHURCH THAT EXISTS AROUND THE WORLD TODAY!

And that my dear readers is how these churches in Asia are all SYMBOLS for what the Church of God would be like from the time John saw this vision, down through two thousand years of Church history, and out into the future when Jesus purges all evil from His Church and brings them all into the Family and Kingdom of His Father!

PRETER WHO?

For centuries theologians have written books on such unscriptural prophecy theories as, "Preterism," (all has been fulfilled in the past), and "Futurism, (all is yet to be fulfilled in the future). I get emails all the time asking if I am a Preterist or a Futurist? I tell them, "No, I am a Jesus-ist" (just kidding-I think I coined a new word).

Why, oh why, don't they just listen to Jesus? Can you not all see from what I presented above, that the book of Revelation is neither "Preterist" nor "Futurist?"

THE BOOK OF REVELATION IS TO ALL CHURCHES, IN ALL GENERATIONS, FOR ALL WHO READ THIS PROPHECY, WHEN JESUS OPENS IT TO THEM, IN THEIR OWN LIFETIME (which comes quickly and is over shortly)!"

waterfall77:
Thank you indianabob and Porter. Both replies may alot of sense.
Aubrey

ralph:
You nailed it, Porter.  Thanks for sharing those from Ray.

These words I feel are especially important for understanding the scriptures:

"All these things take a lifetime. We’re going to live "the seals." A third part of the man died... that’s a third part of the man in us that is going to die, a third part of the carnality. God works in increments, He wipes out some of the trees and then He burns some of the grass… what is the trees and the grass? These are all things in us. We have islands, and mountains, and trees, and grass. All of these are belief systems and ideas and doctrines and philosophies of life and all these things. They are all going to be burned out and broken down and destroyed. All of those seven seals, seven trumpets, seven plagues, they are all things that must happen in our lives"

"THE BOOK OF REVELATION IS TO ALL CHURCHES, IN ALL GENERATIONS, FOR ALL WHO READ THIS PROPHECY, WHEN JESUS OPENS IT TO THEM, IN THEIR OWN LIFETIME (which comes quickly and is over shortly)!""

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