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Matt 24

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Dave in Tenn:
They still don't understand what He told them.  If it's a prophecy, it's summed up in parable(s).  (While He always and only spoke to those not His disciples in Parables, He spoke to His disciples also in parables, yet gave them the meaning--at least sometimes He did.  All of the parables pertaining to the Kingdom boil down to the same thing:  many are called, few chosen).  The words of the Lord are Spirit, and they must be Spiritually discerned.

I've asked this question before, but didn't get a satisfactory answer.  Of all the statements in Matt. 24 that sound like Prophecies (and may well be, spiritually discerned) which ones are unique to this church age--to this present age when His people are coming out of her?  That is to say, never happened before Jesus spoke.  Of those, which is the first one?  Of all the instructions given in the light of these Prophetic statements, which is the first?   

Porter:
That's a tough one, Dave. I, personally, can't see where none of Matt 24 hasn't happened to those coming out of her. It may well be there, but I'm unable to see it. Could you maybe rephrase your question? The question alone makes me reconsider some things I hadn't thought of before in quite the way you are presenting it, assuming I understand what you are asking.

Musterseed:
My understanding

I see this as prophecy because Ray said parables are not literal. They are near stories.

Iím not really sure of your question of how you worded it Dave but I see the first instruction
in verse fourÖ see that no one leads you astray. Why? Verse five ,
which I see as being very literal . They are the many who leads astray..

Dave in Tenn:

--- Quote from: Porter on September 03, 2023, 10:51:39 PM ---That's a tough one, Dave. I, personally, can't see where none of Matt 24 hasn't happened to those coming out of her. It may well be there, but I'm unable to see it. Could you maybe rephrase your question? The question alone makes me reconsider some things I hadn't thought of before in quite the way you are presenting it, assuming I understand what you are asking.

--- End quote ---

Porter, I know that these things are Spiritual and "play out" in the lives of His chosen in each generation.

We're used to thinking of prophecy as a fore-telling of a future event.  Lord knows, this chapter gets trotted out to fulfill that interpretation.  And it's not entirely untrue.  Many have come in His name, saying He is Christ, and deceived many.  Still happening.  Prophecy fulfilled! 

I'm asking if any of the Statements Jesus made are unique to this age, this New Covenant age, this Church age, this age of separation, that never happened before He said it.  Weren't there wars, rumors of wars, earthquakes, etc. etc. before the "prophecy"?  What do we make of "these things"?  We make, or ought to be able to see to make, that "these things" are NOT the end.  These statements are "prophecy" but the "prophecy" is that these things must be...just as they've always been, more or less intensely, throughout History since the beginning.  Nothing new here. 

So, yes, the first of the things that "sound like" prophecy is "For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many."  Don't be deceived.  Something new here!  Christian doctrine!  Many will come saying!  Next is "ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars".  See that ye be not troubled, for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.  Read the remainder of the Chapter and don't forget for a second that many come in His name, saying He is Christ, and deceive many.  As Ray said, if the Church teaches it, it's wrong.  I don't give them a "pass" for end-times "prophecy".  Their wrongness is profound.

Does that clear up anything?     

                 

Porter:
Yes, this clears it up nicely. I would then have to ask, how much did the prophets of the Old Testament live and believe these things too?


--- Quote ---Gen 3:1  Now the serpent was the most cunning of all the wild animals [Greek: beast, congregation, company] that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You can't eat from any tree in the garden'?"
Gen 3:2  The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat the fruit from the trees in the garden.
Gen 3:3  But about the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden, God said, 'You must not eat it or touch it, or you will die.'"
Gen 3:4  "No! You will not die," the serpent said to the woman.
Gen 3:5  "In fact, God [Greek: the Elohim] knows that when you eat it your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
--- End quote ---

I can't help but to see this next passage as a witness to the passage in Gen 3:2-5


--- Quote ---Mat 13:24  He presented another parable to them: "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field.
Mat 13:25  But while people were sleeping, his enemy came, sowed weeds among the wheat, and left.
Mat 13:26  When the plants sprouted and produced grain, then the weeds also appeared.
Mat 13:27  The landowner's slaves came to him and said, 'Master, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Then where did the weeds come from?'
Mat 13:28  "'An enemy did this!' he told them. "'So, do you want us to go and gather them up?' the slaves asked him.
Mat 13:29  "'No,' he said. 'When you gather up the weeds, you might also uproot the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30  Let both grow together until the harvest. At harvest time I'll tell the reapers: Gather the weeds first and tie them in bundles to burn them, but store the wheat in my barn. '"
--- End quote ---

Jesus' seed and Satan's seed have been there, growing ever so closely together, since the beginning - intertwined closer than most realize. The prophets believed and lived these things as well, didn't they?


--- Quote ---Heb 11:13  These all died in faith without having received the promises, but they saw them from a distance, greeted them, and confessed that they were foreigners and temporary residents on the earth.
Heb 11:14  Now those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a homeland.
Heb 11:15  If they had been remembering that land they came from, they would have had opportunity to return.
Heb 11:16  But they now aspire to a better land--a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
--- End quote ---

--- Quote ---1Pe 1:12  It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you concerning things that have now been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Angels desire to look into these things.
--- End quote ---

The only thing I can think of that might be "new" in this New Covenant age is the spirit of grace that came to us through Jesus. I suppose in that spiritual sense, Jesus is new as well, seeing how Jesus is the Promised Land we aspire to reach and will reach if His grace is on us.

I could be wrong and the specific verses and statements within that you are referring to really are unique, and I'm just not seeing it. I mean, before Christian doctrine and bible errors, there were the teachings and rituals of the Egyptian pagans, of which the Israelites and then the Christians adopted and incorporated as their own.

I know you already know these things, Dave, but I'm writing them out to give you the reason for the hope that is in me. My hope could be fine, but the reasoning may not be.

Otherwise, yes I agree, "these things" are not the end, but rather the beginning of birth pains just as Jesus stated in Matt 24:8.

--- Quote ---Joh 3:3  Jesus replied, "I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
--- End quote ---

If the sermon on the mount is for us, then the end has to be the end of our mortal life in the spiritual tribulation of our life.


--- Quote ---Mat 10:22  And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
--- End quote ---

Besides, what is to me spiritually if the world ends literally? I know what it is to Christendom, and you're right, it's profoundly wrong.

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