> General Discussions
In the beginning...
angie:
hi feat ;D
Sorry to have upset your plans for the day! ;)
you said
--- Quote ---If you mutually fantasize about movie stars while with your spouse are you committing adultery?
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Uuum.....I would say so. Does mutual [both of you doing the fantasizing] with consent, stop it being a sin. I wouldn't have thought so, simply because I believe that an act is an external expression of internal feeling of love/desire for the one you are with/committed/married to. Anything else is carnal, after the 'lusts of the flesh'. Anyway, why think hamburger when you have steak at home? :)
--- Quote --- Is it possible to commit a sin that isnt a sin through thought? In other words, can you possibly commit adultery without doing so in thought before the action actually takes place?
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What like as in, frontal lobotomy with no thoughts or memory prior to or at any point in the proceedings?
I can't imagine anyone, male or female getting away with that one whereby it would be acceptable because they didn't think about the deed before the deed was done!! [unless the acceptee was the one with the lobotomy]
--- Quote ---Is it like two sins to think about stealing then another sin to actual take that pack of gum without paying?
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I would say that it's the same sin. The eyes see, the heart [mind] wants, and the hand takes. the physical act of stealing, adultery etc. is the conclusion, the 'fruits' of the thought [sin]
Luk 6:45 "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil:..."
--- Quote --- Finally, if sin take place in thoughts of the mind, then is there such a thing as physical sin?
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Yep, same answer as last one
--- Quote --- What kind of "fruit" does having a knowledge of good and evil bear? If having this knowledge makes us more like God then why wouldn't we understand agape a lot better than we do?
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Sorry, remind me what agape is [love?] :-[
--- Quote ---Just for today, I am swearing off milk and meat today and turning into a vegetable, I mean vegetarian.
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Maybe you were right the first word with these questions ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ROFL
--- Quote ---Now do you see what rattling my cage does?
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yes, but you haven't seen what rattling mine does! :D :D :D
--- Quote --- Please be more careful and take pity on this lunatic.
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not a chance! Sorry, that was the 'old' me ! ::) ;D
Angie
YellowStone:
I think it is time to bring attention to being of sin and incapable of no other in defference to the act of sinning itself. If our human, flesh and bone bodies are sinful by nature as Paul so clearly states below, then what action is not of sin? I mean, even the kind words given with love, are such actions totally without sin. Are there ulterior motives that even our carnal minds cannot comprehend.
Rom 7:13
* Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14
* For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15
* For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16
* If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
Rom 7:17
* Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18
* For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19
* For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20
* Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21
* I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22
* For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23
* But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24
* O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25
* I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
If one reads and fully comprehends the words of Paul, how possibly can one look down on any other?
Paul, does make an interesting point in vs 25: I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Here he would seemingly clearly seperate the acts of the flesh seperate from the thoughts of the mind, but I do not believe that this is what he is saying. More than likely Paul's eyes were opened to more truth than my own clouded eyes, but even he firmly believed that his body was not capable of doing the good that he sort: vs 18: For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
If Paul was unable to perform the good that he so desperatly wanted, how then can we? Does not Satan have a stronger hold on us now than then? I would believe so.
So what are we to do as hopeless sinners? We are to Pray for forgiveness, humility and wisdom so that we can clearly understand that without the love of God, we are nothing but evil doers. Sounds harsh doesn't it, but until this is learned, what have we learned. To put this plainly, I know in God's eyes that I am no better or worse than either Bin Ladan or the Pope. They are as nothing, just as I am without faith in the promise given to us all. It is this that gives meaning to my existence. And sadly, even my contious thoughts fall short. :(
Is there a greater sin than I? I think not. :(
This has been a wonderful thread and I hope my words are true, for they are as I understand them. :)
Much Love to All,
Darren
orion77:
Feat and Angie, you all crack me up! ;D ;D ;D
Darren, I think you hit the nail on the head. It's all about being totally dependent on faith, and even the faith we have is a gift. We really can do nothing in ourselves, it's all about Him. Getting to this point goes way beyond knowing Him crucified, but being crucified with Him. Nevertheless, not our will, but His will be done.
Good post, my brother! 8)
God bless,
Gary
Lightseeker:
Joe Post #5,
Man this thread is way ahead of me already. But to answer your question:
--- Quote ---“Did the speaker have any scriptural witnesses for his opinion that Adam spoke this first? It seems that this would constitute "a secondary word" wouldn't it?”
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I really don’t remember him giving any other scripture for the statement. Where does it say scripture has to be the second witness. For Pharoah it was two different dreams.
Angie #6
--- Quote ---“I think we need to listen to secondary words in the process of learning but not depend or act on them until we can check with the source or cross-reference them. “
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I agree but I also believe that it is the Spirit who truly teaches us:
1JO 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
--- Quote ---“I have read stuff here that made no sense to me at the time of reading and then weeks later after much thought, it's like a lightbulb being switched on [literally seeing the light- lol] “
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The following is a prayer Paul prayed for the saints (those already walking the walk).
EPH 1:16-18 Making mention of you in my prayers that God...may give you revelation...The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
--- Quote ---“Now I'm going to tease you a little bit about this 'retreat' you went to and ask;
was it underground? [no offence intended mind]”
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I’m not offended. It’s been said you can tell the size of the believer by the size of what it takes to ‘GET’ him/her offended. I would truly hope I’m big enough to take your tease. :) Now to answer your question in point. No it wasn’t underground…it was on a mountain in Colorado. Actually another reason I wouldn’t have been offended is…well...OK….I’ll admit it….I don’t know what you’re really referring to. Is this "underground" thing something that means more on your side of the pond? :-\
hillsbororiver:
Hello Dee, this verse immediately came to mind, I will also incluse a portion of Ray's article as well as the link you can peruse at your convenience.
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.
Here is some of Ray's paper "12 Truths" that is relevent to this subject;
TRUTH NUMBER 6
[A] "…that in the mouth of TWO OR THREE WITNESSES every word may be established" (Matt. 18:16).
"…In the mouth of TWO OR THREE WITNESSES shall every word be established" (II Cor. 13:1).
[C] "And I will give power unto my TWO WITNESSES…" (Rev. 11:3).
This particular law of Scripture is constantly violated. We are to have at least a second witness to establish a Scriptural truth or doctrine.
Unfortunately, the Church does not follow this truth of God in establishing doctrine. Truth be known, orthodoxy has not even one witness to support any of their doctrines! Example: The Scriptures tell us that man is "mortal," not "immortal." They teach that man’s soul is immortal. Where do they have a Scripture to support this claim? No Scripture—no witness. Where is their second witness to this claim? No second witness. They will not be encumbered with Scriptures to support their damnable heresies and lies.
God told Adam if he ate of the forbidden fruit he would die: "And the Lord God commanded…you shall surely die." (Gen. 2:17). Theologians teach that, "once we are born, we shall NEVER surely die." Say, doesn’t that sound like the very same thing the lying serpent told Eve? Check it out:
"And the serpent said unto the woman, ‘Ye shall NOT surely die"
Can we all agree that the phrase: "shall NOT SURELY die" is a contradiction of the phrase "SHALL SURELY die"?
Does the Church teach what God said or what the serpent said? Why would you prefer to believe what the serpent said rather than what God said? Am I going to fast for anyone?
So do souls actually die, or are they immortal? A "soul" in Hebrew is a "nephesh." Does the Church have "two witnesses" that souls do not die? They don’t have even one. Well then, do we have two witnesses that tell us plainly souls do die?
Yes we do:
"…the soul [Heb: ‘nephesh’] that sins, it [the soul, the ‘nephesh’] shall die. (Say, isn’t that exactly what God taught us back in Gen. 2:17? Of course). (Ezek. 18:4). Doesn’t this then contradict both the lie of Satan and the Church?
"The soul that sins, IT SHALL DIE" (Ezek. 18:20).
Jesus tells us in parable of two great witnesses:
"Then said He unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which brings forth out of his treasure, NEW AND OLD" (Matt. 13:52).
What "new and old" treasures do "scribes" preserve for us regarding the "kingdom of heaven?" Why the NEW Covenant Scriptures and the OLD Covenant Scriptures, of course. And both the Old (Deut. 17:6 & 19:15), and the New (II Cor. 13:1 & Matt. 18:16) command that we must have two witnesses to establish every Word of God.
I will keep this truth short, as it overlaps with the next spiritual truth # 7 which requires that we compare and match spiritual with spiritual.
The next time your pastor mentions "immortal souls," "Christians going to heaven," "Jesus being in hell for three days," "not all men will be saved," "Christian tithing," "consciousness in death," "resurrection of the body," "parables make the teaching clear," "man’s will being free and independent of God," and dozens of other such nonsense, ask him to give you two Scriptures to support each of his unscriptural heresies.
http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm
Hope this helps,
Joe
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