> General Discussions
In the beginning...
angie:
Lightseeker
Hi Dee
--- Quote ---Who said the bible is the ‘closed’ word of God?….Man did…not scripture!
--- End quote ---
think you got 'man' and 'scripture' in your statement the wrong way round.
uummm...I believe God did mean that His mind doesn't change, He knew the end from the beginning, so why wait till now to add anything else?
Have you ever heard the expression, 'there is nothing new under the sun' ? Well, take out all the physical stuff, [since God is Spirit and we are to match spirit with spirit] then tell me exactly what has changed.
Mal 3:6 "For I am the LORD, I change not;..."
Rev. 1:8 "I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty
--- Quote --- Do you believe we have prophets today? Are they only supposed to quote 2,000+ yr. old scripture? And from two scriptural sources to boot if revealing the truth concerning old/new doctrine?
--- End quote ---
No, yes and absolutely.
Mar 13:6 For many shall come in my name saying, [that] I [Jesus] am Christ; and [they] shall deceive many.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Hold on though, God has a lot more to say on this subject.
Eze 13:3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!
Eze 13:4 O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.
Eze 13:6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.
Eze 13:7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken?
Eze 13: 8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 13:9 And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.
--- Quote ---To me this verse is saying that the person who receives the personal inspiration from God to write scripture, doesn’t necessarily have the total understanding to preach his interpretation of that scripture
--- End quote ---
Dee, this is not right. If you look at strong's definition of the words 'of any private' you may see what this scripture is really saying:
G2398
ἴδιος
idios
id'-ee-os
pertaining to self, that is, one's own; by implication private or separate:
This isn't talking about an idividual reading the scripture who may interpret it wrong [which is guaranteed to happen in the carnal minds of man] It's telling us that no scripture, on it's own, interprets itself. So, that was why it needs to be:
2 Cori 13:1 "... In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established."
Do you honestly think God would leave his word open to such misinterpretations of mere men? I don't. He has it watertight, book-ended between these two scriptures.
And what about this one?
Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Think of it this way:
Q: What are the scriptures? A: They are the inspired Word of God
Q:What is another name for the Word? Answer: Jesus.
Q:What else is Jesus? He is the truth [amongst other things]
Q:So where did He say He was? A: In the midst of them!
This is confirmation scripture that the truth of the Word is in the presence [midst]of two or three witnesses [scriptures] There are loads of scriptures that back up my wee questions/answers too, but if I spend all day looking for them and listing them, will it become any clearer than it should be already?
Angie
Lightseeker:
Joe,
--- Quote ---Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish aught from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
Here is what that "2000 + year old" scripture has to say in regard to your statement;
--- End quote ---
Are you sure that's what 2000+ year old scripture is saying? Please reason with me here. If Deuteronomy 4 meant no more words were to be forthcoming then do you still consider the later words of Isaiah as the 'word of God'? How can they be if Deut. says "No more!"? Or, based upon Deut/Isaiah is the OT the only 'word from God'? If yes, then your Thessolonians quote...along with the rest of the NT isn't scripture? Do you follow my reasoning? Do you see why I think your scriptural view just isn't convincing to me? So am I understanding something wrong, or are you? If it's me please just tell me where.
Also, please go back to my last post and tell me where I messed up concerning the out of context scriptures (IMO) you stand on as the needed confirmation to prove a doctrine. Are they out of context or not in your opinion? I pointed out that none of those scriptures you used even related to doctrine and you never addressd my apparent wrong thinking. Please address my questions. I will listen. It just looks very suspicious when you totally ignore my observations to present what appears to me as a side stepping attempt to further explain your position. I'm not trying to be caddy here...just iron trying to sharpen iron.
And iron sharpening iron IS WHY I'M HERE Joe. I am not seeking to win I am merely seeking the truth. BT has a lot of truth IMO.
angie:
Lightseeker
The books of the bible were in chronological order? I read otherwise
Angie
Lightseeker:
Bobby,
I believe there is a difference between what scripture calls 'the word of/from God' and the book of scriptures, which we call the bible. A book which doesn't have a single copy of the one true original inspired word which was 'spoken' by God to 'a man' and written on a scroll. Even Ray rightly says there isn't one true translation...so why exactly do you call the bible THE word of God?
I love this book called scripture and the bible, but I'm not into what Webster's calls Bibliolotry. That is merely worshiping the 'written letter' as though it were the 'living word' or the 'spoken word'. But you/I are to be living epistles proving that Christ is within by the evidence of Him being lived out through us.
Hello Angie, :)
Such a long post...where do I begin?
--- Quote ---Mal 3:6 "For I am the LORD, I change not;..."
--- End quote ---
66 books over thousands of years...Did everyone get left out who lived before Moses wrote? Or did God need a couple thousand more years to get His point accross? Or is His spoken word still alive and spoken to those who walk with God as Enoch did....even though there's nothing written til Moses...as far as we know.
As far as prophets...I do believe there are prophets. Scripture doesn't say anything about them disappearing. As a matter of fact it is part of the fivefold ministry which was spoken of in Ephesians as being needed til the end.
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
As I read this list I can't help but say: "Are we there yet?" and the answer is: "NO!" And since I don't believe in 'cut and paste' theology then I have to believe that they (fivefold ministry) are all here serving the same purpose they have since the beginning.
Your warning quotes of Matt and Mark concerning FALSE PROPHETS merely reinforces to me that Satan is an angel of light IMITATING the true. Those scriptures don't say anything about not believing the true prophets do they? It doesn't say there aren't any true ones it says watch out for the false ones.
Your Eze. quotes about false prophets confirm what I said above. It doesn't mean there weren't true prophets THEN either...right?
--- Quote ---Dee, this is not right. If you look at strong's definition of the words 'of any private' you may see what this scripture is really saying:
--- End quote ---
I don't have a problem with that definition. But what has that verse got to do with proving two witnesses for doctrine, which is why I was addressing it??? It doesn't have anything to do with supporting the 'two bible verses as proof for doctrin'. Does it?
--- Quote ---2 Cori 13:1 "... In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established."
Do you honestly think God would leave his word open to such misinterpretations of mere men? I don't. He has it watertight, book-ended between these two scriptures.
--- End quote ---
Angie, does 2 Cor say from two or three 'written verses' or does it say two or three "mouths"? And as I said before, what was the context of that verse??? It wasn't establishing doctrine...it was confirming whether Christ was IN somone...or not. And that was determined by whether or not they were sinning. Read it in context 2 Co 13:1-6, and tell me where doctrine is even close to being mentioned.
BTW I know the books aren't in chronological order. That doesn't change the point that was being made.
Well it's late and I gotta go to the jail again at 7pm and I'm still at the office.
Seeya bye,
Kat:
Dee,
I would like to know if you have read the rules to this forum?
If so, why do you keep posting here.
This forum is for people of like mind to fellowship.
Also to discuss what we learn at bible-truths.com.
If this is not you abjective,
you should take your teaching elsewhere.
Kat
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