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Whatever happens was supposed to happen

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mike kyner:
in my experience the idea that man doesn't have a "free will" is hated by all (almost all) both secular and religious folks worse than any other

Musterseed:
I agree Mike.
Matt.10: 34-35…. Think not that I come to send peace on earth: I came not to send
peace but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father and
the daughter against their mother and the daughters in law against the mother in law.

Witness Micah 7:5 and 6

Variance, dichazo, to cut asunder, dis unite, allinate,to cause to disagree.

It took me awhile and lots of persecution from my own family to learn to “be
still and know that I am God”.
Trying to explain to an unbelieving free willer that they don’t have free will is futile and yet
it’s all in the plan of God for us. Jesus said , “ if they hated me, they will hate you”

Knowing now that it’s for His sake and His plan makes it easier for me to shut up ;D

arion:

--- Quote from: mike kyner on April 11, 2024, 10:43:30 PM ---in my experience the idea that man doesn't have a "free will" is hated by all (almost all) both secular and religious folks worse than any other

--- End quote ---

And that is one thing that almost all the adherents of the various religions (even the Christian one) agree upon as well as the atheists, agnostics and pagans.  Ask everyone of them if they have a free will and they will vociferously agree upon that one point even if they agree on nothing else.

Pretty remarkable for the Christians as Jesus clearly said;

Jhn 6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

And of course we know the word 'draw' means to drag by force.

Jhn 15:16  Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

And the word 'not' in the Greek is emphatic.

It's all of God including our salvation on his timeline.  As Ray had taught that the whole concept of free will is lawless and one of the idols of the heart that needs to be destroyed.

Rene:
There is freedom in knowing and believing that God is totally in control and that man has no free will.  Whenever I become too anxious about this world we live in, I am reminded of these amazing truths and thank God for this understanding.   :)

John 8:32 - "and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

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